Constitution Hill

LUKE said:
Wouldn't be surprised to see them do it one day -relatively recently the Leger and Ascot Gold Cup were of no interest to Coolmore.
Click to expand...

Curious, Luke.

How do you define 'relatively recently'?

They've been trying to win the Leger since before Camelot looked like being in with a shout at the triple crown*, and it seems like an age ago that Yeats was collecting Gold Cups like cigarette coupons.

(*Reading between the lines of recent interviews, it isn't hard to get the impression that they are desperate to emulate Vincent.)
 
Desert Orchid said:
Curious, Luke.

How do you define 'relatively recently'?

They've been trying to win the Leger since before Camelot looked like being in with a shout at the triple crown*, and it seems like an age ago that Yeats was collecting Gold Cups like cigarette coupons.

(*Reading between the lines of recent interviews, it isn't hard to get the impression that they are desperate to emulate Vincent.)
Click to expand...

John Magnier said of Camelot's attempt that time it was not for commercial reasons they ran him in the St Leger; it was because the Triple Crown is the Triple Crown.
Immortality becomes more important as one becomes older, for some reason.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Curious, Luke.

How do you define 'relatively recently'?

They've been trying to win the Leger since before Camelot looked like being in with a shout at the triple crown*, and it seems like an age ago that Yeats was collecting Gold Cups like cigarette coupons.

(*Reading between the lines of recent interviews, it isn't hard to get the impression that they are desperate to emulate Vincent.)
Click to expand...

I remember back in the day having a big disagreement with a long gone forumite -PDJ. I insisted Scorpion wouldn't run in the Leger because it wasn't the Coolmore way.
Obviously I was wrong and the floodgates have opened since then.Coolmore have lots of Group 1 horses to move on at the end of every season.When you see a Derby winner being sold to race in Australia it makes you wonder.Maybe High Definition was a sign of things to come -a Group 1 animal trying to become a top class hurdler.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Wasn't it only towards the end of last season that Hendo was saying he thought CH would stay the Gold Cup trip standing his head [owtte]?

I'm presuming they've worked him and/or done some dynamic testing on him and worked out he won't.

The mention of the Ryanair in the longer term suggests they think he might not stay sharp enough in due course at two miles over fences so why should he do so over hurdles?

I don't see the point of his staying over hurdles to dawdle round beating donkeys - anything of any note will go chasing now to avoid him - and I'd love to see him pushed to a very high rating.

He could win the FF and the CH and stay still on the ratings. If so, I'd love to see him try and win the Schweppes off top weight, which I think he probably would do. That would get him a 'proper' rating.

He could make some contests pretty boring but there will always be the ITV crew hyping up every appearance.
Click to expand...

Whilst Blue Bresil has some stayers (most notably Royal Pagaille) that Aintree Hurdle run suggested to me that he would likely toil to get the Gold Cup trip, tbh…..though maybe he might longer-term.

I don’t have any issue in CH staying over hurdles. He has time on his side to go over fences, and he’d start 1/12 and 1/10 in novice chases anyway. If anything, the decision probably makes the 2m/intermediate novice chase scene in the UK immeasurably more interesting that it would otherwise have been.
 
Last edited:
edgt said:
Welcome back Grasshopper, winter cannot be far away.
Your return on Autumn equinox day at twilight is noted .
Click to expand...

Well, almost...

(Two days early.)

Still, it's frightening to think it's that time of year.

How long till the Chepstow Free Handicap Hurdle?? Does that still exist???
 
Desert Orchid said:
Well, almost...

(Two days early.)

Still, it's frightening to think it's that time of year.

It is now a 2 day meeting run slightly later in the year.Fairly sure the free handicap is gone but overall the meeting is better.Chepstow has declined massively since the days of Carvills Hill.

How long till the Chepstow Free Handicap Hurdle?? Does that still exist???
Click to expand...
 
Grasshopper said:
Whilst Blue Bresil has some stayers (most notably Royal Pagaille) that Aintree Hurdle run suggested to me that he would likely toil to get the Gold Cup trip, tbh…..though maybe he might longer-term.

I don’t have any issue in CH staying over hurdles. He has time on his side to go over fences, and he’d start 1/12 and 1/10 in novice chases anyway. If anything, the decision probably makes the 2m/intermediate novice chase scene in the UK immeasurably more interesting that it would otherwise have been.
Click to expand...

What worried me from away back was when Nicky was quoted saying "A lot of people said it would be boring watching him run round and winning 3 Champion Hurdles but it would not be boring to us" Almost like he had made up his mind then.

I agree if there was any clue he might not stay the Gold Cup trip it was at Aintree. However if a horse is head and shoulders above the opposition they get a lot further if they don't come out of there comfort zone.

Flyingbolt was a classic example Dreaper only ran him twice at 3m once in a dog race he trotted round and won by 15 lengths and when he won the irish Grand National 3m2f against slow horses.

As there a lot of young talent at the moment going chasing and Nicky has no idea what will be around in the Gold Cup in 2024 the gamble simply isn't worth it. I suppose
 
Last edited:
Desert Orchid said:
Curious, Luke.

How do you define 'relatively recently'?

They've been trying to win the Leger since before Camelot looked like being in with a shout at the triple crown*, and it seems like an age ago that Yeats was collecting Gold Cups like cigarette coupons.

(*Reading between the lines of recent interviews, it isn't hard to get the impression that they are desperate to emulate Vincent.)
Click to expand...


Camelot was denied a tripe crown by a Zarooni-trained horse that later failed a drug test. It's strange that Coolmore didn't make more of a fuss about that on behalf of Camelot's reputation.
 
Grey said:
Camelot was denied a tripe crown by a Zarooni-trained horse that later failed a drug test. It's strange that Coolmore didn't make more of a fuss about that on behalf of Camelot's reputation.
Click to expand...

:lol:

I'm not laughing at you or the post, Grey. It's because this is a constant source of 'banter' between me and two of my brothers. The oldest and I were on the Godolphin horse at long odds and are forever rubbing it in the nose of the other brother who had backed Camelot in the Guineas and Derby as well as in the Leger. For my own part it's a form of revenge for his constant assertion that Roberto was a better horse than Brigadier Gerard because of the York race.
 
Indeed Art.
Remember when Irish 2000 Gns Saffron Walden was rumoured to have been gelded in advance of a Triumph Hurdle attempt anyone ?
Aiden was quick to scotch that rumour at the time.
Plenty of horses they would have been tempted to geld through the years I am sure.
 
Tanlic said:
What worried me from away back was when Nicky was quoted saying "A lot of people said it would be boring watching him run round and winning 3 Champion Hurdles but it would not be boring to us" Almost like he had made up his mind then.

I agree if there was any clue he might not stay the Gold Cup trip it was at Aintree. However if a horse is head and shoulders above the opposition they get a lot further if they don't come out of there comfort zone.

Flyingbolt was a classic example Dreaper only ran him twice at 3m once in a dog race he trotted round and won by 15 lengths and when he won the irish Grand National 3m2f against slow horses.

As there a lot of young talent at the moment going chasing and Nicky has no idea what will be around in the Gold Cup in 2024 the gamble simply isn't worth it. I suppose
Click to expand...

Whoa -back up the bus in regard to Flyingbolt and 3miles.The dog race was the Thyestes which he won by 30lengths and he won the Irish National carrying 12st 7lbs.
With the greatest of respect you cannot use that as evidence of being a non stayer.
 
Grey said:
Camelot was denied a tripe crown by a Zarooni-trained horse that later failed a drug test. It's strange that Coolmore didn't make more of a fuss about that on behalf of Camelot's reputation.
Click to expand...

On the flipside I was amazed when Bondi Beach had the Leger taken off him.Probably the only time in APOB's career -was it a case of it's only a Leger and he is owned by a Good geezer who we could do plenty of businesses with.
 
Too much flat on this thread, knock it off, puts me at ill ease

Impaire et Passé stays over hurdles so here's hoping Willie sends State Man to kempton peak fitness to see how close he gets to a 70% beast
 
Grey said:
Camelot was denied a tripe crown by a Zarooni-trained horse that later failed a drug test. It's strange that Coolmore didn't make more of a fuss about that on behalf of Camelot's reputation.
Click to expand...

I commend Arthur for his fearless and accurate description of the “tripe crown”.
 
granger said:
Impaire et Passé stays over hurdles so here's hoping Willie sends State Man to kempton peak fitness to see how close he gets to a 70% beast
Click to expand...

Pedant alert...

No accent on 'Passe', pronounced 'pass'. And 'impaire' shouldn't have a final 'e'.

It's a roulette term, referring to 'impair' (odd number) and 'passe' (19+, ie 'past' the midpoint on the table of 18), so 'impair et passe' would be any odd number from 19-35 inclusive on a roulette table.

Every day is a school day... :)
 
Lifted fromRP:
Wait, I know just the chap to counteract all these claims. Mr PF Nicholls. If there is one man who would send Constitution Hill chasing it is the trainer of Kauto Star and Denman; the greatest trainer of staying chasers in the modern era with 13 King Georges and four Gold Cups next to his name.

Right, Paul, go ahead and ruin my column: what would you do if you trained Constitution Hill?

"Stay over hurdles and win the next three Champion Hurdles," he replied instantly.

Really? Are you having me on?
Click to expand...
Apparently he asked another 7 and they all said similar
 
Last edited:
Back
Top