Trump on trial

[Marb]

This doesn't look the strongest of charges against him does it?

If he's found innocent he'll turn the negative into a positive and this will propel him right back to where he wants to be for his next election campaign.

That's my take on it and I'm not alone either.

 

[simmo]

I can't see him being found guilty, it does look pretty weak.

However, I am amused by the Daily Star's front page today, where they refer to him as an "orange man-baby" and "the most orange president in history".

 

[moehat]

I’m just hoping that there is a paper trail which will lead to a conviction. When he lost the last election I thought I would never have to see or hear the odious man ever again. How anyone ( especially women or people of colour) can vote for him is beyond me. He makes my flesh crawl.

 

[archie]

The next court session is not until December. In the interim it's likely that more serious indictments will be handed up in Georgia and by the federal special counsel.

 

[reet hard]

Don't think it's as cut and dried as some believe.
He did refund his brief the $130k, the exact amount his f*ckbuddy was compensated, and he'll find it hard to writhe out of what's already documented.
December before they reconvene looks much like it's been set for after the November primarys,no?

 

[barjon]

I’m with moehat, I think he’s the most obnoxious person with the moral stature of an alley cat. No surprise he attract the yobs and thugs as his supporters - he is one himself.

 

[Marb]

I’m with moehat, I think he’s the most obnoxious person with the moral stature of an alley cat. No surprise he attract the yobs and thugs as his supporters - he is one himself.

But even if he is that, does that then mean he is guilty as charged?

Because in my view the prosecutions case doesn't look that strong.

So back to my original post, if he is found innocent which there is a very decent chance of, he then may be perceived as the victim of political persecution or at least he will say he is.

This will then increase his chances of winning the next election.

If I saw him the way you and Moe do, and for what it's worth I am not that off, I wouldn't have tryed to lock him up for this.

 

[an capall]

Time and cholesterol are our best hopes.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

 

[barjon]

But even if he is that, does that then mean he is guilty as charged?

Because in my view the prosecutions case doesn't look that strong.

So back to my original post, if he is found innocent which there is a very decent chance of, he then may be perceived as the victim of political persecution or at least he will say he is.

This will then increase his chances of winning the next election.

If I saw him the way you and Moe do, and for what it's worth I am not that off, I wouldn't have tryed to lock him up for this.

He’ll say he’s the victim of political persecution whatever happens and if he’s found guilty it will be because of “fake” evidence. Here is a man who tried to overturn the presidential election, for crissake, by legal and violent means. Fostered insurrection and couldn’t get any court or Supreme Court to find for him - yet still he goes on. This time it’s an anti Trump judge, battering the DA, a political witch-hunt and fake evidence. How people in America can countenance such a man as their leader is beyond me. I really don’t care whether the case is strong or not, I just hope it signals the end of him.

 

[Grasshopper]

But even if he is that, does that then mean he is guilty as charged?

Because in my view the prosecutions case doesn't look that strong.

So back to my original post, if he is found innocent which there is a very decent chance of, he then may be perceived as the victim of political persecution or at least he will say he is.

This will then increase his chances of winning the next election.

If I saw him the way you and Moe do, and for what it's worth I am not that off, I wouldn't have tryed to lock him up for this.

In what way do you think the case against him isn't strong?

There are 34 separate indictments, and an apparent trail of evidence showing a cascade of actions from one crime to another (lie (false filing), another lie to cover-up the original lie, and so on).

As it's essentially a fiduciary case, it isn't particularly sexy.......but the Prosecution have plenty to be confident about, based on what I've read, and what the Manhattan DA pitched at his news conference. There is no way he would have served on Trump, ulnless he felt he had a bullet-proof case.

And as archie says, this is a mere bagatelle compared to the charges he'll face in Georgia.

 

[Marb]

For example, I reckon his role in the riots when trying to refuse to leave office and even alledged collusion with Russia are much more meatier matters to try and arrest him for.

Issues like that, if they could get a criminal case against him would be much more meaningful.

I think the feeling among many people is Stormy Daniels was a consenting adult when she did or didn't have a relationship with Donald Trump, and has blatently milked the situation for all it's worth.

The alledged affair was before he even ran for office, and it's probably only because America is such a Christian country that anyone actually gave a monkeys he had an affair before he was elected anyway.

No one in this country would even give a toss, if say a Tony Blair or David Cameron or Rishi Sunak had an affair before they were in office, it would very much be in the news one day and out the next.

To conclude, the main charges that he paid Stormy Daniels through a business account, will be seen by many as pretty much a technical financial breach which, as it could be only his first conviction, will surely not even see him given a custodial sentence.

Once this case is all over, I still think it gives him plenty of ammunition for his next election campaign, especially if found innocent and therefore will be proved not worth the bother.

I am not one of his fans either. I am concerned this case will give him more chance of winning the next nomination and presidency, not less.

As for other cases, we'll have to see them in due course. If Archie is correct then they should have waited for those trials assuming they are more serious than this I reckon.

 

[Grasshopper]

As per my post, this is trivial in terms of the other charges he may face, however, that does not mean that the case against him is weak.

He is not charged with having an affair with Stormy Daniels. He is charged with financial violations that stem from the payments he made to her via Cohen, which he claimed were legal fees - which is where the felony charge of "falsifying business records" comes from. He is further charged that the definition of the Daniels payment as "legal fees" violates NY Election law, as it misrepresents what the monies were intended for, and represent a de-facto illegal candidate promotion.

There is no "main charge" being prosecuted. It is a collection of related charges; with each fraudulent act by Trump intended (according to the DA/Prosecution) to conceal or misdirect from the previous fraudulent act.

Jail time for Trump is almost certainly a non-starter in this case, but the charges are clearly legit, and in the eyes of the law, he is being treated no different to any other NY businessman/woman who falsifies records.

It bears repeating that Trump has never won the popular vote, and that his grip on the Republican Party is dwindling - though the pea-brained cretins that make-up his base, will never not support him.....because they're pean-brained cretins.

Maybe he will still garner enough support from the Republican caucus to secure the nomination, but - should he be found guilty of this charge (forget the other more serious ones he will hopefully have to face-down soon) - the Democrats and Lincoln Republicans will be fielding attack-ads of him in chains, from the moment campaigning begins. Even if he isn't convicted, pretty-much the same will apply.

That being the case, I cannot see how this case helps him at all.

IMO, a much bigger threat to there being a second Trump presidency, is the increasingly-doddery nature of Biden, which could turn voters away from the Dems in significant numbers.

 

[Marb]

Yes agree that from what I have seen his support in the Republican Party is dwindling. That's the assumption I am working from.

In terms of this case, there's a real risk if it is in anyway politically motivated or seen to be, (the law of unintended consequences will likely mean it will be), then it could backfire spectacularly and his political opponents may end up wondering why his career couldn't just dwindle away as it already is/was.

That's just my take on it. Clearly the authorities in New York feel they need to pursue this case. Time will tell.

 

[Marb]

Can anyone with more eye on the detail of these legal cases than me, tell us whether these court cases are helping or hindering him from becoming the next president?

His support keeps growing.

 

[LUKE]

Can anyone with more eye on the detail of these legal cases than me, tell us whether these court cases are helping or hindering him from becoming the next president?

His support keeps growing.

Genocide Joe has no chance of being re elected.

 

[Desert Orchid]

The whole idea of what's happening in both the UK and America is evidence enough that democracy is flawed.

The Conservatives here are are money grubbing, self-serving extremists while the fact that Trump is even being considered shows how downright stupid the majority of Americans are.

Sadly, some of my relatives have to be included in the latter.

The only way Trump doesn't become the next president is if the courts stop him somewhere along the way.

 

[Marb]

The whole idea of what's happening in both the UK and America is evidence enough that democracy is flawed.

The Conservatives here are are money grubbing, self-serving extremists while the fact that Trump is even being considered shows how downright stupid the majority of Americans are.

Sadly, some of my relatives have to be included in the latter.

The only way Trump doesn't become the next president is if the courts stop him somewhere along the way.

I don't like the way politics has gone either. I guess some older than me may say it's always been this way.

The issue with the courts and Trump is this.

If Trumps opponents best chance of beating Trump is through the courts what does this say about the state of the opposition to him?

Beat the man in the ballot box I say, not through meddling in the courts.

These court cases have acted as an endorsement to the notion that he is being persecuted.

 

[gigilo]

At best ones a kiddy fiddler and the others a child rapist and they've both git dementia and probably at least one of them will be dead within the next couple of years maybe both.

 

[Desert Orchid]

I don't like the way politics has gone either. I guess some older than me may say it's always been this way.

I'm not so sure, Marb. Sure, the Conservatives have always looked after their own and Thatcher took them to a new low but I reckon even she would be horrified at what the current mob are/have been doing.

The issue with the courts and Trump is this.

If Trumps opponents best chance of beating Trump is through the courts what does this say about the state of the opposition to him?

Beat the man in the ballot box I say, not through meddling in the courts.

It says much more about the voters than the opposition, in my opinion. The vast majority of the American voters are subject to even more politically slanted media than Sun 'readers'. And in the UK it's the Sun that decides who wins elections.

I mention American relatives. I have one in particular who is of Irish descent (second generation, I think, but his grandfather fought for independence) and he is a rabid Trumpite and pro-gun-laws. His wife, bless her, is a relative on my mother's side and holds strong Democratic and anti-gun views. She says her husband's views are shaped by his years in the police force.

Other relatives in the more northern and western states are of Scandinavian descent but they are also right wing though not rabidly so and I don't think they like Trump but they wouldn't vote Democrat if Jesus Christ Himself was on the ticket.

These court cases have acted as an endorsement to the notion that he is being persecuted.

... because the media present it as such.

 

[Marb]

We should be careful about these accusations, Gigs. The forum is liable.

 

[moehat]

Just because his court cases seem to make him more popular with his fans is no reason not to pursue Trump through the courts for all of the things he has done wrong. Just the things he is on record for saying about women are enough to make me loathe him. I’ll never forget about the way he treated the people in Scotland when he built a golf course there either.

 

[jinnyj]

I see that De Santos has just pulled out and is giving Trump his full support. So that leaves the Donald and Niki Haley who appears to have a cat in hells chance.

So it’s going to be Biden vs Trump again? Or is there another Democrat I’ve missed?

Really...? Is this really the best the US can do?

I. Just. Don’t. Get. It.

 

[barjon]

Nor. Do. I.

 

[geordiecolin]

I see that De Santos has just pulled out and is giving Trump his full support. So that leaves the Donald and Niki Haley who appears to have a cat in hells chance.

So it’s going to be Biden vs Trump again? Or is there another Democrat I’ve missed?

Really...? Is this really the best the US can do?

I. Just. Don’t. Get. It.

Biden and Trump/dems and Reps are just two sides of the same arse and they fart a lot. It is the permanent politicians,bankers,industry they really call the shots and the rest is just show to divide everybody

 

[Ian_Davies]

My late father, an Economics lecturer, told me he once met an American academic counterpart who drily explained USA politics to my Dad thus: "The thing you need to understand is that the Republican Party is the equivalent of your Conservative Party, whereas the Democrat Party is the equivalent of your Conservative Party."

I am surprised Bernie Sanders wasn't expelled from the latter years ago.