I don't give two shits what his rating is.
I've spent more time watching and thinking about this horse than some handicapper who has to rate hundreds of horses.
I don't give two shits what his rating is.
I've spent more time watching and thinking about this horse than some handicapper who has to rate hundreds of horses.
Last edited by Euronymous; 5th February 2017 at 1:29 PM.
Some of you are going to laugh at this but shur what the heck, it's worth sharing I think. For what it's worth I'm fairly friendly with a former assistant head lad to Henderson now training in the states. I chat to him regularly enough and last night after the debate here I dropped him a text on whats app to see if he'd been chatting to any of the lads in 7 barrows. He had been on Friday, he keeps in close contact with both Head Lad Corky Browne (or uncle Albert as he calls him) & jockey Jerry McGrath, all Cork men. I basically asked him why BD had been switched back to hurdles and the answer back was that his homework was exceptional and Corky told him Friday that he is the fastest horse they have in the yard right now!! This is where you are probably laughing now because that would include Altior!! Most of you will think it's bull **** but this is honestly what was told to me and I have no reason to doubt said source.
I was quite taken aback by this also but to be fair to him any time he's passed on info it's been fairly spot on. Furthermore, he said his schooling over fences recently had been very deliberate but that when they schooled him over hurdles he was very, very good. I think Henderson said as much on tv yesterday so that's public knowledge anyway. Both Henderson & Geraghty described him as 'very slick' in his hurdling after yesterdays race.
I do know they hold BD in the highest regard and early last year was ahead of Altior in terms of pecking order. I was on at big price for the supreme on said advice. Altior started life over hurdles at Chepstow in October where as BD was kept for that Newbury race Henderson likes to target with his good novices at the end of November. Altior obviously flourished in between where as BD met with a minor setback keeping him off the track 'til the end of January. But he'd have gotten a lot closer to him in the Supreme with a clear passage than the 8L margin between the two, that's for sure. Certainly wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility to suggest he's improved beyond him again.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by Kauto Abu; 5th February 2017 at 3:00 PM.
Carl (5th February 2017), Colin Phillips (5th February 2017), del boy (6th February 2017), Desert Orchid (5th February 2017), edgt (5th February 2017), Euronymous (5th February 2017), Grasshopper (5th February 2017), TheBear (5th February 2017), Tout Seul (5th February 2017), viking (5th February 2017), zongalero (6th February 2017)
Information like that is worth it's weight in gold Kauto. I really do think the best way in to working out this years winner is that Aintree novice hurdle. I absolutely love Petit Mouchoir's last two performances, proper professional stuff that stood out above anything else I've seen this season. At the time I was very happy that I'd seen the Champion Hurdle winner.
However with this Buveur Dair defection it really has put the cat amongst the pigeons. It's hard to weigh up which of the two has improved the most this season and I suppose you have to include Brain Power in that equation as well. What you've just said there Kauto, if its accurate, would mean you'd have to put BD at the top of the tree because undoubtedly Altior is very special. Geraghty must be nailed on to choose BD over Yanworth which will be like dropping a bomb into the market so the only question now is Faugheen.
Ultimately I couldn't back Faugheen even if everything went perfectly over the next 6 weeks so logic would dictate taking the price on BD now since there's every chance Faugheen won't make it. However if Faugheen does win a prep it could create a bigger price for all the others.
Tough choice.
Kauto Abu (5th February 2017)
If Faugheen doesn't get to Gowran I think you have to write him out of the equation completely, even if he turns up in March!! He needs to get a run into him to get the condition off him, he carries a lot of it. Remember how much fitter he stripped after NC turning him over in November 2015. Granted that was much earlier in the season but the difference in conditioning to the next time he was seen at xmas was like chalk & cheese.
There's only so much they can do at home. He needs a racecourse prep, and soon.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by Kauto Abu; 5th February 2017 at 3:02 PM.
Start of the season my two main Ante-Posts (before I got involved with Djakadam) was Barter's Hill and BUV. I frigging backed BUV for both the Arkle and JLT and BH for the RSA and any race. Starting to think I got them the wrong way round.
I've laid off my Brain Power bet. I didn't go for a guaranteed profit as it didn't really seem worth it. I just laid off the bet at 10/1 to the same stake as I got at 25/1 so I'm contenting myself with 15/1 to no down side.
Fvcking Buveur bastartin D'Air
(Saturday's race still doesn't worry me but KS's message does!)
Illegitimi non carborundum
I'm not worried, the fact KS inside info mentions BDair is made of speed means that hurdling is the sport for him and maybe the shift makes sense, however lets not forget this happened only after AP was announced out for the season and Faugheen missed the prep. If they really had him in such high regard that he was faster than Altior(hard very hard to believe btw) then why not take him this route since the start of the season? and why did they do it now in a listed race avoiding TNO and Yanworth? I know people around here are basing their bets on inside info all the time, but for those of us that the formbook is our bible then BDair is still finishing 5-6th in the CH on his current form.
I disagree. It's mildly interesting, at best. After all, on the basis of "information like that" he ended up on a loser in last year's Supreme. That "they" - it's always "they" - "hold this horse in the highest regard" is virtually meaningless and, to be honest, it's the sort of tripe you read from lazy racing journalists hundreds of times a year.Originally Posted by TheBear
It's "information" based on something someone's said to someone who used to work at the same place a while back. It's like being told that Elsie in accounts at your old firm might be pregnant after a one night stand with that married sales rep you used to know.
I once had some absolutely genuine inside information - not hearsay as it was based on an important gallop I'd watched with my own eyes - and all I can say is it cost me a fortune.
Colin Phillips (6th February 2017)
Not so Sure about him needing a run. Two ways you can train them if they are not naturally lazy and he's won several times first time out.
The fact he lost once from 4 fists time out could simply have been a miscalculation on the part of WPM.
In the others he was never extended. The fact they were unimportant in comparison to the Champion Hurdle it wouldn't worry me one bit. Think Quevega
I always said from go that WPM had planned to give him 1 race at most before the Champion Hurdle and not risk the leg more than need be...it's all about getting him there the rest is just jive to keep them punters happy
Last edited by Tanlic; 6th February 2017 at 10:03 AM.
Formely Fist of Fury
Watching last year's Supreme, BDA was in a decent position coming down the hill. maybe 2 lengths behind Min. He was unable to kick on the ground when Altior and Min went several lengths clear and I tend to think that the same will happen in the Champion. The ground at Sandown (and the opposition) meant that he didn't have to accelerate in the way he'll have to at Cheltenham and, even if Faugheen doesn't show up, I can see Petit Mouchoir for one kicking on round the bend and being difficult to peg back.
The older I get the better I was.
Buveur D'air was back schooling over hurdles before it was announced Faugheen was withdrawn from Leopardstown. This is from Hendersons blog sent out the day before the latest Faugheen injury;
Indeed Geraghty had even schooled him also before the AP announcement was made both over fences and hurdles. He mentioned that on tv the other day to Lydia Hislop on Racing UK so it was obviously something they were toying with for a few weeks. The fact he was given an entry and Altior wasn't would also would suggest it was a little more than an afterthought!! As Henderson remarked he has the champion hurdle entry 'for a reason'. That reason being he was burning up the gallops at home.
However it was his work and home and the fact he was practically hurdling his fences which brought them fully around to the conclusion of the champion hurdle. Look at his last run at Warwick where he met the last few fences skew ways! No point having that engine and losing ground at your fences. When they schooled him over hurdles he came to life again. Decision was made.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by Kauto Abu; 6th February 2017 at 1:23 PM.
Not entirely no. I wouldn't agree I ended up on a loser. I had backed him two or three times ew at big prices along with two win bets. Once before his hurdling debut itself at Newbury when B365 quoted me on request at 33/1. He was 16/1 after that win.
Then I backed him again at Aintree when he won at 10/3. Because he was held in such high regard I tracked a several of the horses in behind him that day at Newbury. Horses like Wait for me, Big Chief Benny, Bun Doran, After Hours and Pilgrims Bay all won since. Pilgrims Bay was very sweet, he pissed in at 16/1. Even West Approach hasn't won but has placed in some top quality races at prices and he was 9th that day. I'd say the horse has been good to me so far. I'll keep the faith.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The chronology of events makes sense now @Kauto and maybe this whole shift is better for the horse but still on form for a CH he's some way behind but that is because he only had one outing against poor opposition and its difficult to gauge its current ability,hence we can only go after his novice form which is good but they do have to improve alot like Petit and Yanworth have done. Do you know he goes to CH directly now?
He wont run again Aughex. Straight there if he gets there healthy. Pulled out very fresh yesterday morning anyway.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You're forgetting how much petrol Buveur D'air used to get in that position tho Archie. It was more 3 or 4L than 2L coming down to the second last but it was nothing about not being able to kick, Supasunday literally came back on top of him as they turned in so he was forced around him turning in!! Fehily had gone for a gap but it closed. Being forced wide cost him another couple of lengths.
The best way to demonstrate what I'm talking about is with a series of freeze frames from the race itself. I'm of the opinion that BD was not only given a poor ride but he also met with trouble at the business end. He probably wouldn't have beaten Altior but he would have beaten Min and cut into the 7L winning distance. Of that I'm sure.
Min was second right the way around about a length off the leader Charbel where as BD was dead last passing the stands about 10L off.
For some unknown reason Fehily decided to anchor him out the back!! At the 4th hurdle BD was 12 of 14, still out the back. Charbel still lead at this stage, min was second tracking closely followed by Supasunday. Petit Mouchouir was fourth and Altior 5th! Fehily still held onto Buveur at the tail.
Approaching the sixth hurdle freewheeling down the hill Buveur D'air had moved into 10th while Altior & Min now held 2nd and 3rd place, a length off. Prime position. By the second last hurdle Buveur last he had taken 8th just behind PM 4-5L off the leaders. He had now made up 6 places from the start.
Rounding the home turn as Altior & Min kicked BD had taken 5th place. Fehily went to follow Min and scrape paint around the inside but was forced wide around Supasunday after he fell back on top of him and with PM still on inside of him that gap was closed.
He was now forced wide off the bend so had now gone from being one off the rail on the inside to 3 wide on the outside losing more ground.
He Passed Supasunday & Charbel in the straight.Turning in he was 4 or 5L behind Min who kept on the inside rounding the bend. At the line he was a length behind him having used far more petrol to get in a position to challenge and forced wide off the home bend.
I think it was a super run by a horse given too much to do who also met with trouble at the business end. Thinking back previous supreme winners, not many have come from last to front. They were always prominent or very handy. Also Archie I think the kick of acceleration your talking about was very much evident at Aintree last year when Fehily hit him a few cracks after the last. Himself & Petit Mouchouir pulled well clear of a very decent mare.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by Kauto Abu; 6th February 2017 at 1:28 PM.
I seem to recall Nicky saying he'd have like to get another month into BD a few days beforehand and by memory him drifting out to 14/1 in a place on the day.
Don't forget Sprinter Scare and the brilliant Spirit Son found it all too much for them but like BD neither was given a really hard race
Nicky won it a few years back with Flown and River Ceriog and it virtually was the end of them and it has been said it's not a fav race of his.
The Buveur we have now is along way from the one who ran in the supreme and the least of his problems is speed..If he gets a bit of cut he'll make them all go.
Like you I would expect Petite Mouchair to go for home sometime shortly after the 3rd last and hopefully catch them out but the Buvuer D'air scares me big time because he can quicken on a sixpence.......If Petete can't find that few lengths going to the last I'd fancy Buveur D'air to come up the hill that bit stronger
Formely Fist of Fury
Good post Kauto
Formely Fist of Fury
NICKY HENDERSON liked what he saw from Buveur D'Air at Sandown on Saturday but warned not to forget about his other leading Stan James Champion Hurdle candidate Brain Power.
Speaking after Buveur D'Air's victory, Henderson said: "Brain Power is very much in the picture, he didn't come here today because I was frightened of the ground. Until yesterday morning they were both going to run. "It's given Buveur D'Air a nice easy race but I have no hesitation in thinking Brain Power would have done the same thing. According to ratings he's a better horse."Considering pre-festival options for Brain Power, Henderson added: "You've only got Kelso and Wincanton left and I don't want to drag him through a bog. He's in top form, he's been doing it all really well, he worked beautifully with Altior this morning and they were great.
I watched the replay imagining how I'd have felt if I'd backed Buveur D'Air:
http://www.thejockeyclub.co.uk/video...81905/15380447
I can see a case for arguing that he might have been closer to Min but maybe Fehily felt he wasn't up to going the early pace, even though the commentator suggested it wasn't too fast. (The time wasn't far behind the CH.)
Illegitimi non carborundum
Very doubtful Fehily thought that DO. This was his reaction after Aintree.
That's some statement considering he rode Rock on Ruby the year he beat the fly and Binocular in the champion hurdle. Any horse who wins a Grade 1 around Aintree over 2m doesn't lack pace, that's for sure.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by Kauto Abu; 6th February 2017 at 1:08 PM.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
