Timeform Best Ever Lists

[Bar the Bull]

Highest Timeform Annual Ratings (Flat)
148 Lindop
145 Sea Bird II
144 Brigadier Gerard, Tudor Minstrel
142 Abernant, Ribot, Windy City
141 Mill Reef
140 Dancing Brave, Dubai Millennium, Shergar, Vaguely Noble

Highest Timeform Annual Ratings (Jumps - Hurdlers)
182 Night Nurse
180 Istabraq, Monksfield
179 Persian War
178 Comedy of Errors, Le Sauvignon
177 Lanzarote, Limestone Lad
176 Bird's Nest, Bula, Golden Cygnet
175 Baracouda, Gaye Brief, Salmon Spray, Sea Pigeon

Highest Timeform Annual Ratings (Jumps - Chasers)
212 Arkle
210 Flyingbolt
191 Mill House
187 Desert Orchid
186 Dunkirk
184 Burrough Hill Lad
183 Master Oats, Moscow Flyer
182 Azertyuiop, Best Mate, Captain Christy, Carvill's Hill, See More Business


Was Baracouda really two pounds inferior to Limestone Lad?
Would Arkle really have been able to give Burrough Hill Lad 28lbs and finish upsides?
Who the **** is Windy City?
Is that the Le Sauvignon who died a few years ago?

[SteveM]

These are about right.

I'd also question that LL ever ran to what Baracouda did in beating Iris's Gift and Istabraq has been 'allowed' a few pounds as he never ran to anything resembling 180.

But hey let's not quibble, most of those you'd expect to see there are there.

As to Arkle, I'm not sure he couldn't give 280lbs to anything (let alone 28lb) if he was really trying!

[an capall]

Dubai Millenium 140!!!

When I think about it!

[Garney]

Le Sauvignon, the fifth best hurdler of all time. Limestone Lad the seventh, I dont know.

Did timeform begin to rate jumpers the same time that they rated flat horse - 1947?

[Irish Stamp]

Le Sauvignon was by all accounts seriously good prior to coming over to the UK.

[SteveM]

DM is too high, but Timeform tend to overate Godolphin.

Montjeu, as we all know, was better than DM over any distance from 2 furlongs to 2 miles.

[prince regent]

so was nijinsky

and imnot so sure mill reef would beat nijinsky

DM is too high, but Timeform tend to overate Godolphin


.

be grateful steve

at least they refrained from rating intikhab as sea birds equal

[prince regent]

looking at the hurdlers it makes you wonder what rating golden cygnet would have achieved if he hadt have had that fatal fall

he obviously has the highest rating for a novice hurdler any idea which novice had the 2nd highest rating

[Flagship uberalles]

Originally posted by SteveM@Nov 28 2005, 03:50 PM
Montjeu, as we all know, was better than DM over any distance from 2 furlongs to 2 miles.

Fishing?

He may be overrated slightly, but he did win all-aged Group 1's by very impressive distances. We all assume Montjeu had all these pounds in hand when recording his wins.. but when he met a horse that actually put it up to him (as Kalanisi did in the Champion Stakes) he was beaten. But naturally that conveniently coincided with his decline....

Limestone Lad has also been slightly overrated. He was undoubtedly top class and one of my favourites, but I'm not sure if he could ever have beaten Baracouda even at his best. Maybe on soft going.

As Bar says - who the fcuk is Windy City?

And for anyone who can answer - under Timeform's ratings system, what did they rate Secretariat's Belmont win at? Or is American racing not covered by them at all? Anyone got any equivalent or comparable lists to cover this?

[Garney]

I dont think Night Nurse could have given Sea Bird the guts of three stone had they met in the Arc.

Timeform are ****.

[Irish Stamp]

Not sure if they do US racing FU, but would have Secretariat clear of them all - he was a machine.

[Irish Stamp]

Originally posted by Garney@Nov 28 2005, 04:15 PM
I dont think Night Nurse could have given Sea Bird the guts of three stone had they met in the Arc.

Timeform are ****.

How about Montjeu getting 3 stone off Night Nurse in the Champion Hurdle?

Could be pretty close.

[Flagship uberalles]

Well Steve certainly thinks that 2miles could be his trip... :huh:

[SteveM]

Secretariat is rated by Timeform/Portway Press as a pound or two below Sea-Bird. Secretariat is second in the all-time list, but shares a rating of 144 (if I remember correctly) with Tudor Minstrel and BG.

[Bar the Bull]

Nobody answered one of my questions. Who the **** is Windy City?

[halmahera]

Comparing generations is a truly pointless excecise. Every day people try to compare horses of the SAME generation and get it wrong, so how can anyone be confident about horses 20 years apart?

[Bar the Bull]

It may be pointless, but it can be good craic, sometimes.

A bit like life, really.

Incidentally, I reckon Montjeu would have done well to have been placed in Hors La Loi III's Champion Hurdle.

Soft as shite.

[an capall]

Bar-

I once knew Windy City, he was mighty pretty, but he ain't got what Monjeu got.

[SteveM]

...No sireee!

Windy City was a chestnut colt foaled in 1949. He won six times from nine starts including the Gimcrack Stakes, the Phoenix Plate, the San Felipe Handicap and the San Gabriel Stakes. Died in 1964.

Montjeu would have put the wind up him though...

[DrizzleCity]

Windy City was also apparently bought and trained initially by Paddy "Darky" Prendergast.