Also if you are going 46 years for a comparison, you are showing just how notable the achievement is.
Also if you are going 46 years for a comparison, you are showing just how notable the achievement is.
John Cherry also finished 2nd as a 3yo in the Cesarewitch 1975 was rated 125.......5 lbs higher than Trueshan and won 18 races including the Chester Cup again ridden by Lester
He won a Group 3 in France but other than that I don't recall him winning any other Group Race.
He finished unplaced in the 1980 behind Popsi's Joy and I believe Jeremy Tree retired him shortly after
Formely Fist of Fury
Gezzus don't you guys know anything about racing?
That is because top class horses like Trueshan simply don't run in Northumberland Plates but he is an exception.
If you don't know he ran in the race before off 118 and was beaten less than 4 lengths.
This years race was much weaker and he'd only gone up 2lbs and King read it well.
You might have to wait till hell freezes over to see the likes of Kyprios running in a handicap
Incidently go check out the Goodwood Cup winners and find me one established one that ran in a handicap other than the Melbourse Cup
Last edited by Tanlic; 26th June 2022 at 10:08 PM.
Formely Fist of Fury
Zero logic in your post. Par for the course.
LUKE (27th June 2022)
Just checked up my trusty Haig Racehorse Annual of 1976.
Remembering John Cherry's Cesarewitch win from Belfalas giving away lumps of weight was enhanced by reading that the runner up had also finished second in Goodwood Cup that season.
John Cherry had run in Henry II Stakes behind Sea Anchor but fluffed his lines that day.
If memory recalls Sea Pigeon had plenty of handicap success carrying 10 stone plus in races like Vaux Gold Tankard before his Ebor victory.
In Ireland in 1989 Elementary , while with JSB won a 12 furlong Derby Day handicap off 10 stone by 4 lengths; the Golden Pages Handicap with 10-4 and was beaten just a length carrying 10-10 by Smoggy Spray, himself a ten race winner trying to concede 43 lbs.
Trueshan's win should be rightly celebrated as the flat performance of this season so far at the very least.
Tanlic (27th June 2022)
Presumably they don’t run in handicaps because trainers don’t share your earlier proposition What you guys fail to understand is it a lot easier giving slow horses tons of weight than beating good horses in your own class.. If they did agree then they'd be all over the big handicaps like a rash with their Group 1 horses. After all, they do say weight stops anything and I suppose that’s the fundamental rationale behind handicapping. Whether it does, or not, to the accuracy demanded of it is another question, of course.
How many handicaps have prizes worth going for and how many are as uncompetive than the pile of shite Trueshan beat?
The 2nd had a win in a 7K race to his name.
Anyway the amount of group races available to run in these days are a lot more than there used to be.
BTW it is a known fact that additional weight stops horses it never has and never will make a slow horse into a fast one.
Formely Fist of Fury
barjon (27th June 2022)
Thanks for the info. I am not saying for one minute it was not a good performance but it was not unexpected either.
Considering the horse had ran well in the race before and this years renwal looked very poor Alan King very cleverly took the bull by the horns and it paid off.
Formely Fist of Fury
It's the kind of race I've been advocating for years.
It's the kind of race that could conceivably happen if bookies didn't run UK racing.
We could have a £5m handicap for horses (trained anywhere in the world) rated 110+ with those rated 110 carrying 8-7, a weight most of the best jockeys can do, and the rest more than that so that a 130 horse would carry 9-13 but with no limit (so Frankel OR 140, for example, would have had 10-9).
But it's only 7:20am so maybe I'm still in bed dreaming.
Illegitimi non carborundum
"It's the kind of race that could conceivably happen if bookies didn't run UK racing."
Spot on, DO.
So much in racing would be so much better if the authorities didn't kow-tow to the big bookmakers.
Sadly the UK no longer are in the top 10 when it comes to the worlds most expensive horse races.
If it wasn't for the fact the Aussies love and respect the Queen so much I doubt they would come all the way
from Aus to compete for 580K when the likes of the Everest in their own county is worth 8.5million pounds.
Can only be a matter of time before UK racing goes even further downhill if they don't come up with
a way to inject real prize money into Group 1 races.
Even the Derby fall short of 1 million at £909,628. Building workers play pitch-and-toss for that in Australia
Formely Fist of Fury
What are tin-pot races worth in Aussie, tan? Can’t think they’d race for the peanuts they have to here.
It's a big country and has many small meetings in the sticks I know zero about but in TOWN as they say a run of the mill prize
Today, which is usually the weakest day for meeting in the week, at Sportsbet-Pakenham 75 km east of Melbourne on the all weather/Synthetic the winner of every race got the same £7,757.08
Last edited by Tanlic; 27th June 2022 at 1:28 PM.
Formely Fist of Fury
barjon (27th June 2022)
John Randall does the same in the RP today - What Trueshan did was nothing special using handicap performances from the 19th century as justification.
Roman Warrior did get a mention, but Levmoss in 1969 was the pinnacle for stayers.
edgt (27th June 2022)
And John Ingles SL/Timeform does the reverse https://www.sportinglife.com/racing/...he-flat/201775.
Timeform’s digital base – which remains fully functioning despite Trueshan’s performance – goes back to 1994 and shows that he has defied much the highest BHA/Turf Club rating in a Flat handicap in that time. Out of the many thousands of horses that have run in handicaps on the Flat in Britain and Ireland in that period, only 26 had previously won from marks of 110 or higher.