Bold Gait won the same race carrying 9st10lbs the second, 3rd and 4th were getting 28lbs to 31 lbs.Originally Posted by LUKE
John Cherry won the Cesarewitch in a canter if I remember right with 10 stone on his back.
Sea Pigeon won the Ebor with 10 stone
There have been dozens of weight carrying performances on the flat but some won so easily they were quickly forgotten
Formely Fist of Fury
Is that why you advised us all to put the mortgage on him then? ( oh, hang on a minute….)All time great performances?Yeah that's why he went off at 3/1 fav and the pros got stuck right in.
He was backed off the boards because he was racing against trees, that, if they ran in a Gold Cup would be beaten by over a furlong.
If at their best Kyprios or Strad would have won the race maybe even easier.
What you guys fail to understand is it a lot easier giving slow horses tons of weight than beating good horses in your own class.
You could have given most of those horses a stone less yesterday and they still would not have gone any faster
Last edited by moehat; 25th June 2022 at 8:58 PM.
One that springs to mind
https://www.racingpost.com/results/2...9-08-07/269317
Tell me the name of the last horse to carry 10st 8lbs to victory in a big flat handicap.
Sea Pigeon in the Ebor, as Tanlic mentioned, is the one that came to mind.
Why do you think he was alloted 10st 8lbs? Could it be he was differnt class to a bunch of moderate animals.
There are horses who ran that are so slow the finished so far behind weight couldn't bring them together.
If for example Desert Crown 123 was pitched against yesterdays winner Bookmark 93 and you put Desert Crown on 10st8lbs and Bookmark on 8st 6lbs
which do you think would win...........IMO Desert Crown by half the track.
The point is we don't often see top class animals running in hamdicaps because the prize money is not good enough these days.
Arkle ran in many handicaps but back then even the King George was a handicap.
So when it does happen and the high class animal wins like a high class animal should it does not surprise me one bit.
Last edited by Tanlic; 26th June 2022 at 6:48 AM.
Formely Fist of Fury
I was simply giving an oppinion............why do you feel the need to react like my mother
Last edited by Tanlic; 26th June 2022 at 7:01 AM.
Formely Fist of Fury
Steady, Fist.
That's no way to speak to a Lady.
What?.My Mum was a lovely lady
Last edited by Tanlic; 26th June 2022 at 7:03 AM.
Formely Fist of Fury
Aswith other Fist examples, it proves weight can be carried by class horses.
Yes, it isn't too often that something wins a top handicap off 110+. It does happen more often in Meydan because there are more handicaps for that class of horse but the lower-rated ones in those races tend to be rated around 100.
Trueshan won off 120. I don't recall that happening in all the years I've been studying form.
I recall Sea Pigeon putting up some terrific handicapping performances and I've mentioned Roman Warrior's Ayr Gold Cup a couple of times.
But nothing like Trueshan.
It does make you wonder if it will start a new trend in handicaps that are worth the really big money now. Could we see a 120 horse taking in the Ebor?
It's a terrific result for racing.
Illegitimi non carborundum
I ask you to name the last horse on the flat to carry 10st 8lbs to victory in a big Saturday handicap and you reference Desert Orchid and Arkle -what a dummy.
Last edited by LUKE; 26th June 2022 at 11:06 AM.
Was it Ocean Tempest that won a Chester handicap off top weight that got a big rating, (handicappers getting over-excited) Not sure he ever won a group race.
Bold Gait 9st 10lbs off an official rating of 105 doesn't come within an asses roar of yesterdays performance -you don't have a clue.
Well remembered, HW:
Full Result 2.55 Chester | 30 August 2014 | Racing Post
There is a difference, though. OT carried 9-12 and put some of his rivals out of the weights.
I think it might have been results like that that brought about the change in conditions whereby the 'ceiling' for the handicap is set at 9-12 for 110 and anything rated higher has to carry correspondingly more. That way fewer horses are likely to end up out of the weights.
I'm a huge fan of the big handicaps and have said more than once that I couldn't understand why G1 horses don't go for them. The Gold Cup this year was worth £500k. The Ebor, pre-pandemic, went up to £1m. If I owned a G1 horse I'd want it to target the handicap.
Can you imagine an Ebor or a Cesarewitch, worth a theoretical £million, 110/9-12 as the 'ceiling' but also attracting the following off these weights (based on current ORs and assuming Trueshan goes up to 123):
Trueshan 10-13
Hurricane Lane 10-12
Kyprios 10-10
Broome 10-8
Mojo Star 10-8
Strad 10-8
Tashkhan 10-3
Princess Zoe 10-1
Would anyone back anything lower than 110 to beat them?
Last edited by Desert Orchid; 26th June 2022 at 11:33 AM.
Illegitimi non carborundum
From an RP item this afternoon (re Trueshan):
"He ran to a Racing Post rating of 128, which is the highest achieved by a stayer in the last decade and the best achieved in a British or Irish handicap in RPR history."
Illegitimi non carborundum
Colin (26th June 2022)
At least I know the difference between Desert Crown and Desert Orchid which seems to have a problem with.
While John Cherry only carried 9st13lbs his performan in the 1976 Cesarewitch left Trushans win in the N. Plate for dead.
Ridden by lester and giving away over 2 stone to most of his rivals he won in a common canter by 7 lengths and Lester sitting motionless
It would have taken alot more than 9lbs to have stopped John Cherry that day and I'd put his performance above that of Trueshans all day long.
But as advanced mathematics is for adults and not like a childish little troublemaker like you I don't expect all that computes with your pea brain
Formely Fist of Fury
Last edited by Tanlic; 26th June 2022 at 9:21 PM.
Formely Fist of Fury
He was already 128 RPR before the Plate and 120 OR....who cares about RP ratings? I don't know anyone who uses them in preference to the OR used by the actual handicapper
Formely Fist of Fury
John Cherry was before my time -I am impressed by your ability to compare handicap form from 1976 to 2022.How did John Cherry do in pattern races.
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