Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24

Thread: Hukum

  1. #1
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    23,660
    Thanks
    2,930
    Thanked 3,483 Times in 2,743 Posts

    Hukum

    Just having a first look at yesterday's result, Hukum's visuals are being backed by the figures.

    Leaving aside Living Legend who was eased out of the race, the rest have to within a pound or so of their respective ORs so there's a case for arguing that Hukum has run to around 127.

    Given that Baaeed is on 'only' 125, I imagine Hukum will probably go up to 124 to keep him below that.

    127 is Adayar's current OR and, from what I can see, the highest rating among the middle-distance horses entered for the Hardwicke. The next is Hurricane Lane, currently 11/10 fav for the Ascot race, on 123.

    I don't think the entries for the King George have closed yet but Hukum does deserve to come under serious consideration for it. He's 8/1 tops for the Hardwicke and that would be a good price if he were to turn up but I can't really see it, being only two weeks hence.
    Illegitimi non carborundum


  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Desert Orchid For This Useful Post:

    Colin Phillips (4th June 2022)

  3. #2
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    4,766
    Thanks
    77
    Thanked 175 Times in 161 Posts
    The race was set up for him yesterday. Tougher tests await.
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    23,660
    Thanks
    2,930
    Thanked 3,483 Times in 2,743 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Frankel View Post
    The race was set up for him yesterday. Tougher tests await.
    In what way, Frankel? I thought the pace was modest; that Frankie was trying to dictate it for himself from the front, but Hukum just blasted by them.

    I agree tougher tests await and whether he'll be up to them is something I'll worry about on a race by race basis.
    Illegitimi non carborundum


  5. #4
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    4,766
    Thanks
    77
    Thanked 175 Times in 161 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    In what way, Frankel? I thought the pace was modest; that Frankie was trying to dictate it for himself from the front, but Hukum just blasted by them.

    I agree tougher tests await and whether he'll be up to them is something I'll worry about on a race by race basis.
    Pyledriver was never going to win under those fractions even if he was allowed to dictate. The pace allowed the winner to use his gears. Pyledriver needed to get him at it earlier.
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Frankel For This Useful Post:

    Eleanora Duse (11th June 2022)

  7. #5
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    23,660
    Thanks
    2,930
    Thanked 3,483 Times in 2,743 Posts
    I would have thought Frankie would have ridden Pyledriver for his optimum performance. Take Hukum out of the race and the result makes perfect sense.
    Illegitimi non carborundum


  8. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    2,597
    Thanks
    568
    Thanked 680 Times in 472 Posts
    They went no pace and he won a sprint. I'd not be getting carried away with him.

  9. #7
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    23,660
    Thanks
    2,930
    Thanked 3,483 Times in 2,743 Posts
    R D(f) T/S F/Spf
    1 6 +1.80 S0.30
    2 8.5 +1.34 S0.16
    3 12 +0.7 S0.06
    4 10 +1.56 S0.16
    5 12 +2.13 S0.18
    6 7 +2.08 S0.30
    7 7 +1.06 S0.15
    R – Race number
    D(f) – Distance (furlongs)
    T/S – Time compared to Standard
    F/Spf – Time fast or slow per furlong

    In the final race, the winner went to the front early and shot clear before holding on. It was a very strongly run race. Races 4 & 5, run over further, have almost matched the overall speed. Hukum has gone much faster overall, so if he was sprinting late he must have been going warp speed.

    I look forward to the sectionals.
    Last edited by Desert Orchid; 4th June 2022 at 12:52 PM.
    Illegitimi non carborundum


  10. #8
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    23,660
    Thanks
    2,930
    Thanked 3,483 Times in 2,743 Posts
    .
    Last edited by Desert Orchid; 4th June 2022 at 12:51 PM.
    Illegitimi non carborundum


  11. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    221
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 81 Times in 67 Posts
    Numbers indicate a pretty even pace (accounting for the topography), with Hukum being the best horse on the day.

    https://www.racingtv.com/results/uk/...-Jun-2022/1510

    The result correlates with others on the card, except the preceding handicap which threw up sectionals which seem implausible.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to ep1987 For This Useful Post:

    Desert Orchid (5th June 2022)

  13. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    7,311
    Thanks
    814
    Thanked 1,033 Times in 875 Posts
    The mph show they went no great pace early, with most of the speed in the 2nd half of the race, and visually it was more a test of speed, rather than stamina.

  14. #11
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    23,660
    Thanks
    2,930
    Thanked 3,483 Times in 2,743 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ep1987 View Post
    Numbers indicate a pretty even pace (accounting for the topography), with Hukum being the best horse on the day.

    https://www.racingtv.com/results/uk/...-Jun-2022/1510

    The result correlates with others on the card, except the preceding handicap which threw up sectionals which seem implausible.
    On those sectionals, you'd have to say Hukum would get the biggest mark-up. To me, that would just add to the quality of the performance.
    Illegitimi non carborundum


  15. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    2,597
    Thanks
    568
    Thanked 680 Times in 472 Posts
    Hukum's splits


    1200m 13.70
    1000m 13.40
    800m 12.55
    600m 11.15
    400m 11.04
    200m 11.05

  16. #13
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    23,660
    Thanks
    2,930
    Thanked 3,483 Times in 2,743 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Slim View Post
    Hukum's splits


    1200m 13.70
    1000m 13.40
    800m 12.55
    600m 11.15
    400m 11.04
    200m 11.05
    Those are different from the ones published in the RTV sectionals data:

    epsom-downs_20220603_1410 (racing-uk-production.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com)
    Last edited by Desert Orchid; 5th June 2022 at 10:18 AM.
    Illegitimi non carborundum


  17. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    2,597
    Thanks
    568
    Thanked 680 Times in 472 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    Those are different from the ones published in the RTV sectionals data:

    epsom-downs_20220603_1410 (racing-uk-production.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com)
    They paint the same picture. Frankie didn't make enough use of Pyledriver and turned it into a sprint.

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to Slim For This Useful Post:

    Eleanora Duse (11th June 2022)

  19. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    2,597
    Thanks
    568
    Thanked 680 Times in 472 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    Those are different from the ones published in the RTV sectionals data:

    epsom-downs_20220603_1410 (racing-uk-production.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com)
    They paint the same picture. Frankie didn't make enough use of Pyledriver and turned it into a sprint.

  20. #16
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    23,660
    Thanks
    2,930
    Thanked 3,483 Times in 2,743 Posts
    I don't think we're ever going to agree on this, Slim.

    Maybe Frankie did get the fractions wrong but he was clearly riding the horse in a way that he thought was going to win him the race.

    Maybe he felt Pyledriver had enough basic speed to beat the likes of High Definition in a sprint finish.

    Maybe he felt if he kicked from the front nothing would get to him.

    Maybe he got it all wrong. I can accept the possibility.

    But I just can't help thinking - given the way Hukum powered through the line - if Pyledriver had gone harder from the front in the hope of outstaying them, Hukum would still have hooked him late on (if not earlier). I'm not sure I would have thought that going into the race and maybe neither did Frankie.

    I hope I'm not saying these things because I won money on Hukum. I only backed him because, like Euro, I thought his price was very wrong. My confidence was so low I went in much heavier each-way at 3/1 without the favourite!

    He certainly surprised me with the manner of victory. Epsom has a knack of throwing up iffy form so maybe he'll never repeat this type of performance but I can't help thinking he would have won no matter how the race was run.
    Illegitimi non carborundum


  21. #17
    Senior Member Maxbet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,053
    Thanks
    392
    Thanked 355 Times in 269 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    I don't think we're ever going to agree on this, Slim.

    Maybe Frankie did get the fractions wrong but he was clearly riding the horse in a way that he thought was going to win him the race.

    Maybe he felt Pyledriver had enough basic speed to beat the likes of High Definition in a sprint finish.

    Maybe he felt if he kicked from the front nothing would get to him.

    Maybe he got it all wrong. I can accept the possibility.

    But I just can't help thinking - given the way Hukum powered through the line - if Pyledriver had gone harder from the front in the hope of outstaying them, Hukum would still have hooked him late on (if not earlier). I'm not sure I would have thought that going into the race and maybe neither did Frankie.

    He certainly surprised me with the manner of victory. Epsom has a knack of throwing up iffy form so maybe he'll never repeat this type of performance but I can't help thinking he would have won no matter how the race was run.
    Hukum ran an identical time to The Derby winner in identical conditions, Weight, Ground etc!

  22. #18
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    23,660
    Thanks
    2,930
    Thanked 3,483 Times in 2,743 Posts
    Dunno about that, Max. I've never been convinced that you can assume identical conditions on different days.

    Perhaps when I get round to checking it all out I'll come up with the exact same going allowance for the two days but in over 40 years of doing time ratings, I'd have to say it's very rare to get exactly the same GA on consecutive days. Similar ball-park figures, maybe, but identical is very rare.
    Illegitimi non carborundum


  23. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    221
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 81 Times in 67 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    Those are different from the ones published in the RTV sectionals data:

    epsom-downs_20220603_1410 (racing-uk-production.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com)
    They're almost the same, just with the final furlong missing.

    Also for whatever reason the sectional links never work; need to post from the RTV results instead.

    https://www.racingtv.com/results/uk/...-Jun-2022/1510

  24. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,410
    Thanks
    600
    Thanked 581 Times in 486 Posts
    Hukum picked up an injury in the race that may see him retired to stud according to the RP


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to viking For This Useful Post:

    moehat (6th June 2022)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •