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Thread: The UK Political Landscape

  1. #41
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    The usual 'humble and sincere' apology, supported by the BBC (as per) and it will be business as usual.
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    A whole country taken for mugs...and he`ll still remain in office. What an awful country we`ve become. Well, at least we will get the national anthem played on the BBC if Mad Nad has here way! The rest of the world must be laughing at us.
    And I see his "employer", the Daily Telegraph, doesn`t even lead with the story this morning. The usual elements of the gutter press will soon be circling the wagons to save him. Shameful!
    Last edited by Desperate Dan; 11th January 2022 at 11:37 AM.

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  5. #43
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desperate Dan View Post
    A whole country taken for mugs...and he`ll still remain in office. What an awful country we`ve become.
    Indeed. We've been going down the pan for some time. The bankers that caused the first crash (2008?) should have been jailed for life. That might have focused minds and consciences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Desperate Dan View Post
    Well, at least we will get the national anthem played on the BBC if Mad Nad has here way! The rest of the world must be laughing at us.
    I'm anti-monarchy (any monarchy, not just ours) but I don't mind the idea in principle of a National Anthem being played on TV at the right time (ie when no cvnt's watching or listening). They do it in many countries and in places like USA regardless of political allegiances the vast majority of people respect the anthem. It's just a shame ours is dedicated to a bunch of fvckwit inbreds. But at least it's better than Flower Of Scotland...

    Sometimes I wish I was Welsh. Their anthem is very stirring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Desperate Dan View Post
    The rest of the world must be laughing at us.
    I think the rest of the world has been laughing at us for many years. We ceased to be a global power many years ago yet cling on to the idea of our own importance.
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  7. #44
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    Harold Macmillan said in the late fifties when he became PM that his job was to manage Britain’s decline. For donkey’s years we had been led to believe that Britain was the tops in everything, despite evidence to the contrary which has become more and more stark over the years. Yet today we are still being hoodwinked and barely a political speech goes past without some chest thumping that Britain leads the world in this, that or another.

    Thatcher tried to reverse the flow with disastrous results. Reasonable enough policy to kill off the dead and dying industries, but replacing them with nothing but the fanciful notion that the city money men would provide, jeez! Desert points out how that went. Where was the investment in the new industries to replace the old? Where is our computer industry? Where is our Silicon Valley? Where is etc etc?

    So here we are today with a Government that still trumpets that Britain leads the world and so much believes in its own false rhetoric (does it, if the truth were known?) that it has isolated us. I fear for our country and my grandchildren.
    Last edited by barjon; 11th January 2022 at 3:00 PM.

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  9. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by barjon View Post

    Where is our computer industry? Where is our Silicon Valley? Where is etc etc?
    Dublin mainly Barjon, and to a lesser extent the rest of Ireland (Rep of). Interestingly I began working in the Foreign Direct Investment technology sectors (semiconductors) with a Silicon Valley company in the year after Thatcher was first elected. I only ever worked in ICT since as a full time role. I retired two years ago following a hugely enjoyable, fulfilling and rewarding time of it. I'm thankful that we began to look out just as the only other naturally Englsih speaking state in the EU started to look in. You left the door swing open for us.
    "And still they gazed and still the wonder grew. That one small head could carry all he knew.

    And that small head knew that Impaire Et Passe would win the Champion Hurdle."

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  11. #46
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    Vote Alfie!!!!

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    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barjon View Post
    Harold Macmillan said in the late fifties when he became PM that his job was to manage Britain’s decline. For donkey’s years we had been led to believe that Britain was the tops in everything, despite evidence to the contrary which has become more and more stark over the years. Yet today we are still being hoodwinked and barely a political speech goes past without some chest thumping that Britain leads the world in this, that or another.

    Thatcher tried to reverse the flow with disastrous results. Reasonable enough policy to kill off the dead and dying industries, but replacing them with nothing but the fanciful notion that the city money men would provide, jeez! Desert points out how that went. Where was the investment in the new industries to replace the old? Where is our computer industry? Where is our Silicon Valley? Where is etc etc?

    So here we are today with a Government that still trumpets that Britain leads the world and so much believes in its own false rhetoric (does it, if the truth were known?) that it has isolated us. I fear for our country and my grandchildren.
    I read this (or a variation of it) the other day, and it’s a beautiful metaphor for Brexit and those who led, enabled and supported it:

    The United Kingdom is like the 50-year-old bloke who thinks his wife (the EU) is the only thing holding him back from shagging a bevvy of beautiful 25-year-old women, so he leaves her…….only to end up sad and alone in a one-bedroom-flat washing his pants in the sink.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 11th January 2022 at 10:36 PM.
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    A neutral or objective person could argue both pro's and con's since leaving though.

    Yes we have had food shortages due to supply problems but that's the case throughout europe and some parts of the wider world.

    People were quick to jump in and blame it on the lack of european drivers until it became clear the industry overall was starting to decline because of wage depression...

    We here in the U.K did get the vaccines a lot earlier than the Europeans and the bureaucracy they went through implementing a vaccine programme was embarrasing.

    I voted remain but I think we need to get on with it now. The future of the world is so uncertain, and I still feel we haven't seen who has been proved right or wrong yet in terms if Brexit.

    Yes I am sure more angry vindictive people voted leave than remain but thats a fact of life there are angry and disgruntled people everywhere and they were given a good bone to chew on once the referendum was announced.

    I can understand why pro european scots are angry.

    It will be interesting to see how a future Starmer lead government deals with Sturgoen and co...will she get another indy ref?

    Ultimately brexit was always something many die hard conservatives always wanted. Once Cameron got in back in 2015 with a narrow majority the chances/odds of brexit happening got considerably shorter.
    Last edited by Marb; 11th January 2022 at 11:17 PM.

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    The United Kingdom is like the 50-year-old bloke who thinks his wife (the EU) is the only thing holding him back from shagging a bevvy of beautiful 25-year-old women, so he leaves her…….only to end up sad and alone in a one-bedroom-flat washing his pants in the sink.
    Must remember this one and use it down the pub!
    I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
    Take a bow for the new revolution

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    Agree with much of that, Marb, though I'd doubt Starmer will be leading anything,anywhere.
    For mine, he oozes insincerity, and seems to believe that Government can be achieved by slagging easy targets.

  17. #51
    Senior Member an capall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marb View Post

    We here in the U.K did get the vaccines a lot earlier than the Europeans and the bureaucracy they went through implementing a vaccine programme was embarrasing.
    Genuine question and an admitted generalisation. Why (increasingly) do UK citizens and media, post Brexit, mesure their success by pointing out a lesser performance by EU?There is no doubt that a fine British civil servent in the NHS had the foresight to launch a Purchase Order on pharma companies while VD Leyden was unesscessarily naval gazing for 3 months. Kudos. But why does this matter so much?
    Last edited by an capall; 12th January 2022 at 10:24 AM.
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    And that small head knew that Impaire Et Passe would win the Champion Hurdle."

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    For me personally it made the E.U look stuck under a false protocol, as if I remember rightly their regulator took a lot longer to give the go ahead to the vaccines. Forgive me Al I am not an expert on it, I guess it was just one thing a brexiteer could say worked in our favour since we left.

    For me personally again there are other phillosophical issues where I seem to disagree with the way the E.U is going.

    Last night I heard on the radio about a new memorandum or statement from the E.U saying that people shouldn't wish people merry christmas anymore and instead use the term happy holidays etc.

    Again its a small issue I guess but to start regulating what we can call christmas seems a bit silly.

    I find myself agreeing with the pope's recent remarks about the overuse of cancel culture...

    If the E.U was to come out next week and castigate J.K Rowling for her views on feminsism and transgender rights then I would also happen to disagree with them on that too.

    Gosh I am sounding like a brexiteer..I voted remain ffs!
    Last edited by Marb; 12th January 2022 at 11:05 AM.

  19. #53
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marb View Post
    Last night I heard on the radio about a new memorandum or statement from the E.U saying that people shouldn't wish people merry christmas anymore and instead use the term happy holidays etc.
    That sounds the kind of thing much more likely to come from a Scandinavian or Dutch person than other Europeans, in my experience. Too many European countries are predominantly Christian for it to be taken seriously.

    I find it impossible to imagine the French wishing each other 'Joyeuses vacances' or the Spanish 'Felices vacaciones'. I think they would laugh at any such proposal, as would the Italians and many other countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marb View Post
    Again its a small issue I guess but to start regulating what we can call christmas seems a bit silly.
    It's less likely to be an attempt to regulate what we call Christmas than an agenda-driven push for secularism, something much more likely to happen in the UK, I reckon.

    As for the current incumbent cvnt at No 10, I've noticed lately the headlines in his supportive media are increasingly anti-Johnson but beneath that they still support him.

    Today's Daily Mail headline: Is the party over for PM?

    Sub-heading: Boris must apologise and show humility - only then can he survive.

    Note the use of the first name and implied wish for him to remain as PM.
    Last edited by Desert Orchid; 12th January 2022 at 11:24 AM.
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    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marb View Post
    A neutral or objective person could argue both pro's and con's since leaving though.

    Yes we have had food shortages due to supply problems but that's the case throughout europe and some parts of the wider world.

    People were quick to jump in and blame it on the lack of european drivers until it became clear the industry overall was starting to decline because of wage depression...

    We here in the U.K did get the vaccines a lot earlier than the Europeans and the bureaucracy they went through implementing a vaccine programme was embarrasing.

    I voted remain but I think we need to get on with it now. The future of the world is so uncertain, and I still feel we haven't seen who has been proved right or wrong yet in terms if Brexit.

    Yes I am sure more angry vindictive people voted leave than remain but thats a fact of life there are angry and disgruntled people everywhere and they were given a good bone to chew on once the referendum was announced.

    I can understand why pro european scots are angry.

    It will be interesting to see how a future Starmer lead government deals with Sturgoen and co...will she get another indy ref?

    Ultimately brexit was always something many die hard conservatives always wanted. Once Cameron got in back in 2015 with a narrow majority the chances/odds of brexit happening got considerably shorter.
    We have only seen the thinnest-possible end of the wedge re food shortages, as full customs controls on Imports only triggered at the start of this year, rather than the beginning of 2021. UK companies exporting will similarly be impacted. It has nothing whatsoever to do with wage depression amongst hauliers.

    Please list all of the things in the 'Pros' column. Early acquisition of the vaccine I'll give you, though given we're the first European country to pass 150,000 deaths, it's somewhat of a Pyhrric victory. Also, by August 2021 six European states had higher vaccination rates than the UK, so getting it earlier than EU countries seems a bit like going 1-0 up inside the first 5 minutes of a 90-minute match.

    That aside, please name the rest of these Pros for leaving you mention. I, for one, am fascinated to know what they are.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

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    Quote Originally Posted by an capall View Post
    Genuine question and an admitted generalisation. Why (increasingly) do UK citizens and media, post Brexit, mesure their success by pointing out a lesser performance by EU?There is no doubt that a fine British civil servent in the NHS had the foresight to launch a Purchase Order on pharma companies while VD Leyden was unesscessarily naval gazing for 3 months. Kudos. But why does this matter so much?
    Hubris, emotional immaturity and minuscule intellect, is the answer to your question, Colm.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marb View Post
    For me personally it made the E.U look stuck under a false protocol, as if I remember rightly their regulator took a lot longer to give the go ahead to the vaccines. Forgive me Al I am not an expert on it, I guess it was just one thing a brexiteer could say worked in our favour since we left.

    For me personally again there are other phillosophical issues where I seem to disagree with the way the E.U is going.

    Last night I heard on the radio about a new memorandum or statement from the E.U saying that people shouldn't wish people merry christmas anymore and instead use the term happy holidays etc.

    Again its a small issue I guess but to start regulating what we can call christmas seems a bit silly.

    I find myself agreeing with the pope's recent remarks about the overuse of cancel culture...

    If the E.U was to come out next week and castigate J.K Rowling for her views on feminsism and transgender rights then I would also happen to disagree with them on that too.

    Gosh I am sounding like a brexiteer..I voted remain ffs!
    This is the kind of erroneous and blatantly-misleading horse-sh*it that would routinely be publicised by Brexit supporting newspapers over the years.

    For the record, it is possible to disagree with some elements of EU policy (note that the EU can't actually 'police' or 'legislate' against anyone saying 'Merry Christmas'), and still support it for the much greater good that it manifestly provides ion any number of areas. It is the pea-brained obsession in the UK with irrelevant trivia like this bullshit radio-story that led us to Brexit in the first place.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 12th January 2022 at 12:01 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    That aside, please name the rest of these Pros for leaving you mention. I, for one, am fascinated to know what they are.
    I think the world has been taken aback by Covid. If you asked the general public whats affected their lives the most the past two years the answer is not leaving the E.U, the answer is Covid.

    A worldwide pandemic which surely has damaged the world economy, but for how long and how deeply might be the interesting question.

    What about the perceived negatives or the cons so to speak? Have the big european banks/bankers all moved out of the city of London?

    People have rolled out similiar arguments when someone like Corbyn propsed to tax the super rich more - that these super rich people will leave the country.

    But the city of London hasn't gone missing has it? Has the U.K economy crashed? Not really...hence maybe the biggest pro at the moment is the lack of apparant cons. Maybe we just have got extremely lucky...

    Its been a monumentally frustrating and drawn out process no doubt, and I do feel guilty to the trouble its caused in Ireland and for you people in Scotland who wanted to stay in the E.U.

    I just think we need to get on it with now, Grassy.

    If the U.K really does implode in a few years then remainers as adamant as you will rightfully tell us we should have remained in the E.U. Thats fair enough.
    Last edited by Marb; 12th January 2022 at 12:58 PM.

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    If you think the UK economy hasn't crashed, then you haven't been paying attention. We will be paying for Covid-related problems for many years to come - we just haven't had the invoice yet.

    The true impact of Brexit is similarly in the post. Insofar as the Financial Services industry is concerned, Capital flight in the multi-billions has already happened, and whilst the scale of FS job losses isn't yet as bad as predicted, over 7,000 jobs have been lost. All of this impacts tax receipts into the Exchequer, something which will start to bite further as UK becomes an increasingly less attractive place in which to invest. And if the Exchequer decides to push interest-rates up to increase investment attractiveness, it will impact the man on the street through higher costs (mortgage interest rates, inflation etc). The disaster has yet to properly unfold.

    No matter. I didn't ask for a list of things which "Aren't quite as fu*cked as predicted yet" - I asked for a list of Pros. Get back to me when you have them.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

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    Senior Member Grey's Avatar
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    Last night I heard on the radio about a new memorandum or statement from the E.U saying that people shouldn't wish people merry christmas anymore and instead use the term happy holidays etc.

    Again its a small issue I guess but to start regulating what we can call christmas seems a bit silly.
    This is the kind of malicious brexiteer nonsense that Boris himself used to delight in when he was a Brussels correspondent for the Telegraph (one of the papers he didn't get fired from for making stuff up).

    It is true that in Brussels and many other French-speaking places the normal phrase used to wish each other a happy Christmas in shops and workplaces is "Bonne Fête", to apply to the whole period covering Christmas and New Year. In the days after Christmas, the phrase "Bonne Année" is used to wish people a happy new year. But this is merely common usage, not the result of legislation.

    Ironically enough, Oliver Cromwell, who many brexiteers would claim as their spiritual father, was responsible for banning Christmas festivities when he was in power.
    Last edited by Grey; 12th January 2022 at 3:00 PM.

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    Apologies if anyone is offended at the way I reported on this. If I exaggerated it wasn't intentional.

    Having read further it seems the guidance given was for internal purposes and inclusion for E.U staff.

    I guess it's a trivial matter afterall..
    Last edited by Marb; 12th January 2022 at 4:07 PM.

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