It can't be the prize money - the balance is more the other way on the flat.
The reason, (imo) Arabs don't do jumps racing.
It can't be the prize money - the balance is more the other way on the flat.
The reason, (imo) Arabs don't do jumps racing.
He should report his concerns formally and not to mediaOriginally Posted by chestnut
Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done
That's very blind of everything wrong with British jumps racing
Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done
Nothing blind at all; just a recognition that (relative to flat racing) there's more invested in NH in Ireland.
And if the Arabs did enjoy proper racing, they'd just send them to ireland too
Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done
barjon (20th March 2021)
'Hassle' of paperwork/cost, jockey booking if C19 restrictions in place then, horse doesn't like travelling., might not get ground over there, more chance of getting beaten and not winning 100k potentially after all the 'hassle' of getting out there.
Vote Alfie!!!!
They do!
There are always cycles of domination of one party or another in all spheres of life. A lot of Nicholls' big guns didn't turn up for whatever reason, although had 2 wins, 2 seconds and 2 thirds, Henderson had some disappointments as well, Tizzard very quiet, O'Brien nothing and yet stable flying domestically, McCain/Fry nothing, Jonjo one winner, Skeltons' nothing - most of the big 'English/UK ' yards either didn't have a lot of runners or anything good enough. There is too much racing in the UK, irrespective of any argument in favour, how that is solved is probably for better men than me, or people not to be sexist, but Ireland has smaller land mass/population and could not support probably the intensive nature of fixtures in the UK and that may be a part of the reason for this week, but a lot of the UK 'big guns' didn't turn up or just don't exist right now.
Vote Alfie!!!!
Is this refering to Nicholls? 1 second 2 thirds.
Think those are Henderson's stats that GG posted
Last edited by Diamond Geezer; 20th March 2021 at 7:51 PM.
"The owls are not what they seem"
chroniclandlord (20th March 2021)
As handicaps are supposed to be a level playing field, how was the score GB vs, Ire in those races?
Take away the big owners in Irish NH racing, then figure where it'd be.
Isn't that the game? The question is why are the big owners attracted to Ireland, and having their horses trained there. If Joe Donnelly and JP housed all their horses in Ireland, it would be even more dire.
If you took all 23 Irish winners out, Ireland would have still have won the prestbury cup as they had the second in so many.
And to my mind that is the main worry. Not only did they have the top horses (winners), but they had them in depth.
Forget about owners Irish trainers are just better. This season I watched with interest how the Sullivan horses would perform having moved from Mullins to Nichols. I didn't have to wait long for my results. Every single horse regressed what more needs to be said, if you just spend hundreds of thousands on a horse who would you send it too, its a no brainer.
Kim Bailey is a hugely talented and experienced trainer. He's also very articulate.
I think he is choosing his words very carefully here.
I had very mixed feelings about watching Langer Dan in the last race. As you know, I put it up at 50/1 NRNB in the two big handicaps for which it was entered. Skelton rode it either uber-confidently, anchored and almost detached early, or very stupidly, for the same reason. He picked his way easily through the field from the top of the hill and sprinted a mile clear of the third and a host of other job horses. But there was one in front which had run prominently throughout and was not stopping. Not winning that race - and the accompanying bonus - must have really soured an outfit at the close of a bad week.
The strength in depth is a huge factor. The big yards can afford to run several in their own big handicaps and be competitive with their second-division horses while preserving the marks of the better ones.
Of the top of my head, I'm not sure I can think of a handicap hurdle winner that wouldn't be up to winning a graded race. My main bets in them were ones I thought were graded horses in handicaps: Saint Sam, Blue Sari, Champagne Platinum, Belfast Banter and Gentleman De Mee.
Only one ended up winning but the losers were all beaten by horses I reckon would win graded races.
As I've been typing this I've been checking back through the results. Maybe Jeff Kidder might struggle in a graded race since he was off just 125 but he was an easy winner too.
There's another dimension, in my opinion, and it links to the handicapping. These races are incredibly competitive yet the handicapping procedures make it impossible for them to be rated accurately. Horses that can pick up decent Class 2 handicaps end up beaten out of sight but the principals, if they finish close to each other, only go up a little because the handicapper ignores the well-beaten horses.
For example, using ball-park figures, if it normally requires a horse to be 7lbs better than its mark to win a £20k Class 2 handicap on a Saturday, the chances are they'll need to be 10lbs well in to win a £50k race. Take that up to the fairly regular £100k races in Ireland and you need to be 14lbs well in to have a chance. Yet often they'll only go up a few pounds. Come Cheltenham, for which stablemates have been plotted up because they're known at home to be better-handicapped, they're turning up with connections knowing they've got upwards of 16lbs in hand of their mark and there are several of them in the race. The losers' marks go unadjusted and they are put away for the next season because the owners and trainers have the numbers that enable them to do it. The smaller yards just identify one or two potential Cheltenham horses and set about campaigning them for the festival.
I would be pretty sure Skelton thought he was on an Unsinkable Boxer in Langer Dan. He had been campaigned 'Irish-style' if I can put it that way, and ended up being foiled by a Saint Roi type.
Illegitimi non carborundum
barjon (21st March 2021), Desperate Dan (21st March 2021)
Interesting what you say about the Saint Roi type. I watched this about a month before the festival - recorded at the start of the year - and managed to back him for both the county and the martin pipe on the back of it.
Bit late now but drew a few people's attention to it.
https://youtu.be/cFxWsDd0qYA?t=180
Last edited by HawkWing; 21st March 2021 at 11:28 AM.
Desert Orchid (21st March 2021)
I was wondering how much the number of runners at the festival from the big English yards had decreased. These are the figures for eight of the biggest British stables this year compared to 2011.
Henderson 2011 41 2021 23
Nicholls 27 20
Pipe 19 9
Hobbs 17 6
TwistonDavies 19 9
King 18 6
O'Neill 12 7
McCain 13 0
Total 164 80
I don't know how much of the decease is due to owners being unable toattend this year, but that represents a very significant decrease.
Desert Orchid (21st March 2021)
I think Hobbs’ horses may not be 100%. Saw an owner of theirs yesterday and she said a fair few (including hers) had returned poor scopes during the week. I am sure the runners scored fine but there could be something in it.
Likewise Tizzard we know haven’t been healthy for a while.
Hendos looked well (they always do) but he had some issues earlier in the year.
O’Neill for me has always been something of an enigma. Backed by the top owner in the game (and one of the most generous) he just hasn’t ever hit the heights he should have done (IMO)
tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito
While they weren't of the same powerhouses as Gigginstown guess no one has really noticed the effect of leading UK owners leaving/reducing their interest in the sport had:
From maybe a decade (15 years) ago - perhaps
Graham Wylie
Paul Barber
David Johnson
Clive Smith
Andy Stewart
Robert Ogden
Graham Roach
Alan Potts
Trevor Hemmings also reduced.
etc
Last edited by HawkWing; 21st March 2021 at 11:43 AM.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote