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Thread: Bryony Frost

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    I disagree, Barjon, and reckon the role of the jockey is massively over-emphasised in racing.

    Clearly, there are a very few exceptional ones (e.g. McCoy, Walsh), and some appalling ones (e.g. Mr D Maxwell, Victoria Pendleton), but these extremes aside, the rest are all much of a muchness, and are entirely dependent on the horse they are riding to make them look either good or bad. Very few of them actually make a difference, and even when they do, it’s very-much by exception, rather than the rule.
    In an individual race, there is very few instances where the rider makes the difference. In most cases, the best horse will win and any of the top 50 jockeys could do a job. I do think that there is a cumulative effect that ends up with the best jockeys making the best decisions and ending up on the best horses. (And over time, those not good enough losing those rides.)

    There are other factors other than race-riding that ends up with the best jockeys on the best horses. Bryan Cooper is one of those jockeys who would be capable of winning on most horses but lost two high profile retainers, Sam Twiston-Davies likewise. I would rate them marginally worse than the best and went through a long period where a series of marginal decisions ended up with them losing good roles.

    Geraghty reports in his book that the year before retirement, JP called him in and reported that trainers were complaining about the rides he was giving and whether he was thinking about retiring. Even with the very best, its noticed.

    I think Bryony is as good as most out there and not a negative on any horse. I don't think she stands out as one of the top five jockeys (for instance), but not sure there are many who claim her to be.

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  4. #22
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    I largely agree with HW on this but I definitely check jockeys on anything I'm thinking of backing.

    I always have to think twice about backing a horse if RJ is booked, for example. If I backed anything ridden by the likes of D Maxwell it would have me questioning my sanity.

    I often find myself checking if the jockey could have ridden elsewhere for a trainer with whom (s)he has had a lot of success. I check for the jockey's record for the trainer. Sometimes just getting a riding fee is enough for some jockeys, it seems, and they'll ride pretty much anything for anybody even if they are a good jockey so their overall strike rate is low but occasionally you'll find they have a 50% or better rate for somebody and then that's worth taking into consideration.

    I always hesitate about backing a claimer but it doesn't usually put me off. I think it's because one of my old man's mantras was 'a 7lb claimer is a 7lb penalty'. Maybe it was back in his day but modern claimers are so well trained in the basics and some are great value for their allowance.

    Kudos to jinnyj at this point for highlighting some of our better claimers when they're breaking through from the ptp sphere.

    Some jockeys are a definite positive for me. On the Flat, Dettori is a class apart. He will often have had the pick of several rides in a race so whichever he opts for could be significant. He also makes the fewest mistakes of any jockey around since Cauthen.

    Over the jumps it's not so clear-cut. One rider who caught my attention earlier in the season is Adam Wedge after a couple of excellent wins in TV races. He wouldn't necessarily be a go-to jockey for me but I'm never put off if he's up.

    I'm still not sure about Cobden. He's obviously doing well because of his job and gets to pick and choose the best rides for his stable and for outside yards (that often have past connections to Nicholls) so he's a positive booking in that sense but I'm not sure he's a great jockey.

    Skelton, I've said before, is far from stylish but I like that he always tries to go round the inside and not give away ground needlessly. That's a plus for me. Going one yard too wide all the way round in one circuit costs over a length in ground conceded. Losing on such a ride by a head does mine in!

    I also like jockeys who tend to ride more prominently. I always used to think twice about anything ridden by Paul Moloney who seemed to to ride 90% of the time in rear. Then, of course, I'd oppose him one day and he'd go and make all! I blame him for the Ruckers not winning at least one Grand National on their horses.

    The best jockeys help you evaluate a race, though. If Ruby Walsh held one back you knew they were going too fast. If he rode prominently you knew he was dictating the pace either way.

    I do reckon the vast majority are much of a muchness but that the muchness is at a pretty decent level.
    Two's company, three's allowed.

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    Its not all about the actual race its self.There are others factors too, for instance when Noel Fehily stood in for the injured Matty Batchelor for a one off ride on Carruthers. He got off the horse after the race and suggested to the trainer he wears a tongue tie when running in the future. It was applied for his next race and he duly won the Hennessey. Matty had ridden him for 3 years and never asked to try it.

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    Too true, Frontrunner, I recall PN used to rely on Ruby implicitly for the lowdown on his mounts.
    “Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    I for one would very much look forward to it!
    So do I - think he should have been entered before now but anyway - just going to be such a shame no spectators will be there to see it. Mass hysteria in lounges round the country. Maybe everyone could record themselves watching the race and post on line afterwards!!
    Baby maybe better come back next week, can't you see I'm on a losing streak

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    Senior Member G-G's Avatar
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    I don't bet very often but doing the ITV7, I am definitely put off by jockey bookings, even if on an odds on favourite, flat or jumps. Some jockeys are definitely a negative. I would never not back a horse being ridden by Bryony, or Rachel Blackmore or Hollie Doyle , just because they are a woman. Never enters my head. Some of the male jockeys I find very hard to make as my selection. Friends who go racing are the same, the jockey very often puts them off and more times than not, the thought is the correct one. Some jockeys currently riding wouldn't be jockeys if didn't have family connections, and I think , get away with it just because of that. I was half watching a race recently and hadn't taken notice of the card and who was riding what, but watching one jockey with mask on I thought to myself I bet that's Byrony: sitting still over the fences as well as on the flat, really tidy, stays beautifully balanced...was placed and gave the horse every chance. Behind her prominent male jockey thrashing round similar to a combine harvester in full flow. No way is that a positive. Totally agree with Jinnyj , the ride on Yala Enki was just magic to watch. She doesn't start throwing toys out of the pram when under pressure and he's obviously trying to go the pace and get there. Just brill to watch . She also doesn't hit the c*** out of anything either, which some think is the way to get the best out of, particularly, tiring horses.
    Baby maybe better come back next week, can't you see I'm on a losing streak

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    Quote Originally Posted by reet hard View Post
    Too true, Frontrunner, I recall PN used to rely on Ruby implicitly for the lowdown on his mounts.
    Ruby reportedly told Tizz that Thistlecrack was a 3m horse when he rode at Ascot. Lo and behold...

    His ride on West Approach in the Cleeve was masterful too, even if only finishing 3rd. A proper smuggle job.

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  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Geezer View Post
    Hard to see what Bryony did wrong on this one.

    https://www.sportinglife.com/racing/...handicap-chase

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    Absolutely nothing at all.

    Must be more to it than that.
    Two's company, three's allowed.

  14. #31
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    Hard to say it was Bryony's fault, but her mount did take the faller's ground when jumping left at the fatal fence, (as it had at a few fences previoulsy), but you can understand Robbie being peeved in the heat of the moment, at what happend to his. Would have been accepted as just one of those things, otherwise, but it appears the spat has continued since
    “Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ”
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  15. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by reet hard View Post
    Hard to say it was Bryony's fault, but her mount did take the faller's ground when jumping left at the fatal fence, (as it had at a few fences previoulsy), but you can understand Robbie being peeved in the heat of the moment, at what happend to his. Would have been accepted as just one of those things, otherwise, but it appears the spat has continued since
    I would have had 2l between them at the time, and even further ahead at previous fences. I dont think there was any interference, none. Putting any blame for Bryony is a huge reach, and if so, a clear instance of the prejudice against Bryony. If that is taking Robbie Dunne's ground, I would think it happens most days in several races. He had to deal with talking to connections and decided to blame someone rather than putting it down to a racing accident.

  16. #33
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    Wisecracker had been jumping markedly left most of the time, including when Robbie had been behind it at the previous fence. If he’d had his wits about him he’d have seen it coming. Anyway he didn’t seem that much closer than he had been at that previous fence.

    Changing room spats are nothing new, but usually stay behind closed doors. Presumably Robbie has gone well ott his choice of (angry) words or/and he just won’t let it rest. We’ll probably never know for sure.
    Last edited by barjon; 14th January 2021 at 11:02 AM.

  17. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkWing View Post
    I would have had 2l between them at the time, and even further ahead at previous fences. I dont think there was any interference, none. Putting any blame for Bryony is a huge reach, and if so, a clear instance of the prejudice against Bryony. If that is taking Robbie Dunne's ground, I would think it happens most days in several races. He had to deal with talking to connections and decided to blame someone rather than putting it down to a racing accident.
    Who's putting blame on Bryony
    “Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ”
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  18. #35
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    It would seem Robbie Dunne, and those who feel he has a case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reet hard View Post
    Who's putting blame on Bryony
    Dunne would seem to be having at Frosty a go, man.
    "And still they gazed and still the wonder grew. That one small head could carry all he knew."

  20. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiggers1972 View Post
    Yeah they interviewed him after the Welsh National win, he'd been buried a couple of times from falls earlier on in the day and they were asking him how he felt.
    He just replied, " it's a mans game and you've just got to get on with it."
    The fact he has had to come out and defend himself is absolutely fukcing ridiculous.
    As soon as I heard him say it you just knew some would jump on it.
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

  21. #38
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    I think he worded his 'apology' perfectly.

    A lot of people use expressions that, when you analyse them, can be deemed offensive to somebody somewhere, as I was just explaining to her indoors.
    Two's company, three's allowed.

  22. #39
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Right or wrong, he can't win now anyway
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  23. #40
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    The whole thing is a load of bollocks.

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