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Thread: The Leaders of the Free World

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    Senior Member Tout Seul's Avatar
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    The Leaders of the Free World

    Who now qualifies?

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    Putin?

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    Prince Charles?
    Last edited by Marb; 7th January 2021 at 5:09 PM.

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    Angela Merkel

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    Jacinda Ardern. Please.....

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    Senior Member Tout Seul's Avatar
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    It is all too easy to poke fun at the Yanks over the antics of Trump and the perceived gullibility of his supporters however. on reflection, I wonder whether we should be more concerned. How could such a man garner the populist support that he has and get them to act as they did. Counter intuitively. some of the wealthiest people in the US are amongst his supporters.
    The US is still one of the 2 most powerful and rich countries in the world, how the **** did it get to this?

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    A lot can be said for that chicago pizza advert on every so often.

    Life is often about respect.

    Some people open their mouths and have an ounce of respect, some people open their mouths without an ounce of respect, some folks just choose not to actually open their mouths at all. Some people deviate between the three, life is a stage evermore so.
    Last edited by Marb; 7th January 2021 at 11:10 PM.

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    Senior Member Tout Seul's Avatar
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    I know quite a bit about Trump and his integrity from my time in international finance. I wouldn’t have trusted him running a one roomed b&b let alone a hotel and property business. Could give great detail but won’t.
    The vast majority of his supporters are probably decent honest people that deserve much better leadership than he is capable of delivering. What irks me is that he doesn’t seem to care about his people at all.

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    After a dreadful year of a global pandemic too.

    If ever there was a time to put your own countries interests ahead of your own gain this is it.
    Last edited by Marb; 8th January 2021 at 3:11 PM.

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    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tout Seul View Post
    It is all too easy to poke fun at the Yanks over the antics of Trump and the perceived gullibility of his supporters however. on reflection, I wonder whether we should be more concerned. How could such a man garner the populist support that he has and get them to act as they did. Counter intuitively. some of the wealthiest people in the US are amongst his supporters.
    The US is still one of the 2 most powerful and rich countries in the world, how the **** did it get to this?
    I mentioned this about the time of his election.

    We were on an organized tour of Italy and there were a few Americans in the group. One senior couple came across as quiet, private and measured. We eventually got round to breaking the ice with them and they were just as they seemed until the conversation turned to politics (not my fault, ahem).

    The guy was a retired head of a western energy conglomerate, his wife, of Philippine extraction, a retired professor at one of the big Californian universities.

    My jaw dropped when it became clear they were voting for Trump so I politely pressed them on the matter, a nicely-worded, in my opinion, version of "What the fvck are you thinking of?" if you will.

    We need to stop the immigration, she said.

    We need to make America great again, he said.

    For the next few exchanges they merely repeated the various Trump mantras. I also got the impression they didn't like the idea of a black president who, they seemed to believe, had been too liberal, and they wanted change.

    And that's pretty much what it boiled down to: they were voting for change and Trump was offering change.

    Well he certainly brought about a changed America.
    Last edited by Desert Orchid; 8th January 2021 at 3:42 PM.
    Illegitimi non carborundum


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    Racism and immigration (usually the same) is the common denominator for most of these "populist" causes, IMHO.

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    I wouldn't consider myself a rampant populist but maybe social democratic parties did start to disenfranchise or partly help create populism through negligence with how they were governing themselves.

    Incompetence, poor management and no common sense are three very basic things which can cause uproar in any voter if it seems this cannot be altered or changed.

    The outrage the left feel about Boris's Johnson handling of corona is the same type of disillusionment that the right in America feel about the way the democratic party or 'Washington elite' doesn't care about them.

    The biggest common denominator in populism has been perceived political and economic failure or mismanagment, IMHO. Without this central trunk the other branches on the tree would never grow so long.
    Last edited by Marb; 8th January 2021 at 5:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tout Seul View Post
    It is all too easy to poke fun at the Yanks over the antics of Trump and the perceived gullibility of his supporters however. on reflection, I wonder whether we should be more concerned. How could such a man garner the populist support that he has and get them to act as they did. Counter intuitively. some of the wealthiest people in the US are amongst his supporters.
    The US is still one of the 2 most powerful and rich countries in the world, how the **** did it get to this?
    The biggest problem with critiquing Trump is it's all too simplisitc. For example one of his biggest critics is David Frum, he of Iraq war fame doesn't exactly have the morale high ground. If Trump conducted himself like Obama it would have been business as usual. All the same players were operating in the background like John Bolton etc.

    I like what Trump did but I'm now tired of having how bad he is rammed down my throat 24/7. I'd imagine what swung the election was people voting for Biden out of sheer exhaustion.They didn't vote for him beuase he would be good, they voted because he isn't Trump. Nothing will change with Biden being president for ordinary Americans.
    Last edited by Slim; 8th January 2021 at 6:00 PM.

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    I think Trump gave voice to those thoughts that people dared not speak. In so doing he “legitimised” such thoughts, probably to a much greater degree than the bare words justified. It’ll take a lot to get that genie back in the bottle and I don’t envy Biden the task.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barjon View Post
    I think Trump gave voice to those thoughts that people dared not speak. In so doing he “legitimised” such thoughts, probably to a much greater degree than the bare words justified. It’ll take a lot to get that genie back in the bottle and I don’t envy Biden the task.
    I'm glad that the Democrats got the Senate albeit on the VP tie breaker. Now they have no excuses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barjon View Post
    I think Trump gave voice to those thoughts that people dared not speak. In so doing he “legitimised” such thoughts, probably to a much greater degree than the bare words justified. It’ll take a lot to get that genie back in the bottle and I don’t envy Biden the task.
    Trump is a rampant egotist; Biden the polar opposite, imo.

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    Unfortunately it will take a strong and very capable leader to bring the US together again. There are at least two large unsettled segments of society looking to improve their lot and want someone ‘on their side’. I doubt that there is one person that can fill that role. Most likely the tension will increase rather than subside. The financial and social impact of the pandemic will hit the economy whilst Trump will regretfully still be on the scene. Biden has a major task ahead.

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    Slim (8th January 2021)

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    Now the House are moving to impeach Trump and Joe Manchin, D-W.Va. has said he will vote against the $2,000 cheques that won the run offs in Georgia. Healing my bollocks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tout Seul View Post
    Unfortunately it will take a strong and very capable leader to bring the US together again. There are at least two large unsettled segments of society looking to improve their lot and want someone ‘on their side’. I doubt that there is one person that can fill that role. Most likely the tension will increase rather than subside. The financial and social impact of the pandemic will hit the economy whilst Trump will regretfully still be on the scene. Biden has a major task ahead.
    I think that's accurate and you can add in that large swathes of the country will disengage. 60% of Trump supporters will not be appeased by Nicki Hayley or her ilk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim View Post
    I think that's accurate and you can add in that large swathes of the country will disengage. 60% of Trump supporters will not be appeased by Nicki Hayley or her ilk.
    Why try to bring the country together? Centrist west wing type idealism. Institute effective voter reform to reverse/ prevent further voter suppression and gerrymandering of the republicans. The republicans, not to mention the trump die hards in there are a minority of a minority. Appeasing them is giving them too much credence. In a fair fight they lose every time. I wouldn't trust Biden to do anything other than back his donors, but hopefully they will see thats how you lose.

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