The bookmakers have for a long time made betting patterns available if they suspected foul play...Originally Posted by Beef or Salmon
I think it was Silvino Francisco that was arrested in 1986 for alleged match-fixing (big bets on frame results) nothing stuck, but plenty of other players have served bans and suspensions...
Last edited by Maxbet; 25th January 2021 at 11:58 AM.
Beef or Salmon (25th January 2021)
I managed to find a recording of the race in question and it's hard to make a case of obvious stopping. There have been far more credible cases.
That paragraph also caught my attention. I emailed the article to the brother yesterday evening, highlighting it.
His response (a dig at the writer, rather than the situation, I think):
Laugh? I nearly bought a round. I couldn't count the number of horses I've seen stopped in recent years. The article suggests the jockey was told to stop it. By whom? The bookies? The trainer ? The owner? Another trainer? Gangsters?
Last edited by Desert Orchid; 25th January 2021 at 11:59 AM.
Illegitimi non carborundum
In terms of performance enhancing drugs in racing generally, the following factors would give me reason to think there is/may be a problem.
1) testing is of a poor standard relative to France. See the gain feeds incident amongst others.
2) it is hard for trainers to make it pay, so I could easily see how some could resort to PEDs to get results and keep people in a job etc.
3) there is a general acceptance of various forms of cheating/not running horses on merit etc. While PEDs is a big jump from getting a horse handicapped, there is an acceptance in the sport of behaviour that would be more frowned upon in other sports.
4) regulators often seem very quick to accept trainers blaming others or circumstances when a horse tests positive. Perhaps this is because this is actually the case, but I do wonder....
Sent from my SM-J415FN using Tapatalk
Wherever money is involved, there's a strong chance cheating of some sort or another is involved.
I've long suspected drugs are being used in racing but probably not anywhere near as much now as in the 60s and 70s.
I don't really think they need to use drugs nowadays. Training has become so scientific they only need to alter one aspect of a regime to affect performances (usually negatively, I'd reckon, to get them handicapped) although the co-operation of willing jockeys is often obvious too.
Another of my favourite [conspiracy] theoriesis that young jockeys coming through the ranks have their careers hijacked by crooks. The jockeys might just have finished their apprenticeship and be struggling to break into the bigger time so they are ripe for corruption. A wee bung to delay a challenge by half a furlong, or go wide round the bend, might pay them more than the winning percentage in a small race and, effectively, help keep the wolves from the door. They end up with the reputation of 'journeyman', jocked up on no-hopers and unfit horses looking to have their mark manipulated. They don't need to stop these horses. The horses stop themselves.
But the sport needs them, I suppose. You can't have champions without mediocrity further down the ranks.
Going off on a tangent, I watched the Lance Armstrong programme last night. It was clear that anybody who wanted to be anybody in cycling had to do doping of some sort. He ended up under the 'care' of Michele Ferrari (was that his name?) who went by the mantra 'all you need are red blood cells'. He was probably cycling's Alberto Salazar long before Salazar became athletics' Michele Ferrari.
I also suspect EPO and blood-boosting were in common use in racing going back to the sixties but probably not so much now, or at least however it's done now is done in some 'scientifically natural' way so as to be perfectly legal.
My old local [now retired] bookie used to ride in the Tour de France in the 60s. He said they were all on drugs then but nobody thought anything of it
I've mentioned before a Blue Peter progamme on which Fatima Whitbread, who had just broken through to the top ranks, was the special guest. She openly accredited her breakthrough to anabolic steroids, explaining in detail how they worked and, in effect, enhanced her performance (not to mention her beard).
We can look back now and admire the blissful ignorance of it all.
Illegitimi non carborundum
Seems to me that if connections are involved doping to stop seems an unlikely option given the other options available. Doping to enhance is a different matter.
I’m reminded of the occasion when a Steward, Lord Cadogan, barked at a trainer “what did you just give that horse?” - “just a sugar lump,” he replied “here, have one and I’ll have one, too”
Giving his instructions to the jockey the trainer said, “Keep up and at the 2 furlong mark give him a kick and let him go. Don’t worry, if anything passes you it’ll be Lord Cadogan or me”
I know nothing about the doping so not going to pretend i do.
In terms of ‘stopping horses’ I thought that was quite commin, and it was up to you to be on the right one? The blind punter isn’t to know. But anyone who follows racing have half an idea.
You only have to look at the Pertemps qualifiers for horses being stopped. Or am i on the wrong line here? As n horses that should be trying are being told to stop by third parties?
Drinking a spoonful of bicarbonate in a glass of water before a run will prevent lactic build up...
Desert Orchid (25th January 2021)
I can tell you categorically he was not stopped: the ground was not to his liking that day, and they went very fast. On top of that Bazza said the hood wound him up and he didn't settle that as he usually did. On top of that he lost a shoe and struck into himself.; the latter being so bad that he never ran again, despite the McManus team giving him plenty of time to come back , and were hopeful at one point that he would make it back. He didn't and was retired, someone in the yard took him home and he is having a very happy life. I was a witness to the conversation and the shoe loss/injury immediately after following him back up the horse walk and to the unsaddling enclosure, and the conversation between Bazza and trainer.
Vote Alfie!!!!
Beef or Salmon (25th January 2021), Desert Orchid (25th January 2021), Grey (25th January 2021), Tout Seul (25th January 2021)
So not like the Foxrock incident where they took the shoes off after the race!!!
Sent from my SM-J415FN using Tapatalk
Steady on now. Where have I said it was stopped? I'm answering the question of what horse David Walsh was referring to.
Last edited by Slim; 25th January 2021 at 6:37 PM.
I was answering whoever thought LAD had not run his true race that day, I didn't quote anyone.
And completely pointless ( wait for the dig ) but gutted that race finished him, as he was very versatile and thought he was going to be the superstar out of the mare, which I admit having a totally selfish vested interest in the family breeding.
Last edited by G-G; 25th January 2021 at 7:00 PM.
Vote Alfie!!!!
I can assure you David Walsh is inferring to Leave At Dawn in his article.
Last edited by Slim; 25th January 2021 at 7:23 PM.
Would like to add the other side of the story. People can believe whatever they want:
Charles had 40k on, and his crew had lumped on and JPs crew felt their price was taken so in the parade ring Frank goes over and tells Charles not today.
Give me his contact details and I will tell him/repeat what was said that day and the physical evidence which was obvious. I have an email from Martinstown as well if he would like to see it.
Vote Alfie!!!!
You're reading the wrong paper, so.
"And still they gazed and still the wonder grew. That one small head could carry all he knew.
And that small head knew that Impaire Et Passe would win the Champion Hurdle."
Slim (27th January 2021)
He won't be hard to find but don't expect a confirmation
Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done
G-G (27th January 2021)
https://twitter.com/DavidWalshST/sta...622344705?s=19
G-G (27th January 2021)
It's asking me to subscribe to read the article so not doing that but I will send him a DM based on what has been said on here with the caveat that I have not read the article.
He doesn't allow DMs apparently. Will see if I can find email for him.
Sent my two-penneth worth- just had to get off my chest!
Last edited by G-G; 27th January 2021 at 10:31 PM.
Vote Alfie!!!!
Send a public tweet that you would like to discuss a matter in private regarding his reporting on horse racing
Good luck
Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done
I don't think anyone is going to take someone seriously who writes in complaining about an article they haven't read.....
Sent from my SM-J415FN using Tapatalk
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote