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Thread: Envoi Allen

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    Envoi Allen

    Wasted running in novices. Odds on vs Shiskin for me.

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    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    In what race Hawk?
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

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    Over 2m. Its the only contest that we will ever get a price for him. It would be a shame if they were never to meet.
    Last edited by HawkWing; 29th November 2020 at 2:48 PM.

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    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    Think Shishkin would spit him out over 2m.

    Two and a half at Aintree would be fun.
    Last edited by Frankel; 29th November 2020 at 2:52 PM.
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

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    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkWing View Post
    Over 2m.
    Bold.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

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    I was all over Shisken last year - the turn of foot at the end of Newbury hugely taking. But EA is a rolls royce of an animal. Completely different to the Samcro hype. It's a shame they wont meet.

    I think going to the Dublin Racing Festival is bad news for Chelt chances and happy to see Gordon going elsewhere.

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    he looks alright doesn't he?

    geraghty on podcast this week said when he rides at gordo's he gives him a similar feel to sacre.

    i do wonder if he's a gold cup horse. clearly has gears and jumps like a slick 2 miler on what we've seen so far.

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    Yeah. He is classier than you'd want for a prospective gold cup candidate. I wouldn't go against him in any race. 15/8 Boyles for the Marsh for Gordon getting him to Cheltenham.

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    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Envoi Allen has an uncanny ability to quicken on a sixpence of 2m4f. With no sign of him being stepped up to 3 miles the Gold Cup is a huge no no. 15/8 is worth the gamble as 1 week before the race if no negative news he will be odds on...lay him off take the money and enjoy the race
    Formely Fist of Fury

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    I think over 2 miles, Shiskin would turn him over. No doubt Envoi Allen has a great turn of foot, but he needed every furlong of that 2m 5f in the Ballymore in March and I'd expect hypothetically, Shiskin would do him for toe over 2 miles. Would be some race though!

    Another cracking performance from him today, at Fairyhouse, effortless, and that change of speed when Assemble was getting close, was brilliant.

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    If EA needs to win over 2m, EA wins over two miles. I think he beat shiskin in talent and his temperament is unimpeachable. I think he beats abracadabras easily last year.
    Last edited by HawkWing; 29th November 2020 at 7:19 PM.

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    His best run over 2m technically gives him the beating of Shishkin by about a length, on a line through Abacadabras......though that doesn’t account for the trouble in-running that Shishkin met during the Supreme.

    Envoi Allen is a hugely exciting talent, but suggesting he would cast a horse like Shishkin aside over 2m is based on not very much in the way of evidence, and is somewhat disrespectful to the Henderson horse, imo.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 29th November 2020 at 7:26 PM.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

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    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkWing View Post
    If EA needs to win over 2m, EA wins over two miles. I think he beat shiskin in talent and his temperament is unimpeachable. I think he beats abracadabras easily last year.
    I really want this race now. Shish on the snaff, on the snaff.

    Do you think Envoi will go King George next season?
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

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    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankel View Post

    Do you think Envoi will go King George next season?
    No.

    2nd season at DownRoyal, lexus or DRF, goldcuppin
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankel View Post
    I really want this race now. Shish on the snaff, on the snaff.

    Do you think Envoi will go King George next season?
    Yeah. Its a shame that its odds against that they ever meet. Thing is (as much as i loved how did things at Newbury last year) Shiskin was anything but on the snaff in his one real test. It shows his courage that on his big day, he was at his least impressive and still won. EA doesnt do bad days.

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    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkWing View Post
    Shiskin was anything but on the snaff in his one real test. It shows his courage that on his big day, he was at his least impressive and still won.
    You could say exactly the same about Envoi Allen’s run in the Ballymore......assuming we’re treating both horses equally.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    You could say exactly the same about Envoi Allen’s run in the Ballymore......assuming we’re treating both horses equally.
    Thought that on the day, (that he might get beaten for a stride or two turning in) but how he engaged the turbo to have the race won completely in half a furlong suggests he is simply different gravy.

    It was his fifth grade 1 win today - beat the supreme second and champion hurdle third in the Royal Bond last year. Treating both horses equally.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkWing View Post
    Yeah. Its a shame that its odds against that they ever meet. Thing is (as much as i loved how did things at Newbury last year) Shiskin was anything but on the snaff in his one real test. It shows his courage that on his big day, he was at his least impressive and still won. EA doesnt do bad days.
    Shishkin had a terrible trip in the Supreme and hated the ground. The fact he picked up the 2nd was a fair effort. Some will quib the 2nd but still.
    Think he could be a beast over fences. That said, so will EA.

    If they did meet, tactically how do you think it would play out. EA make all?
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Shishkin interfered with two-out and basically came from an impossible position, HW.

    I don’t believe you are treating the two entirely equitably, insofar as a race over 2m is concerned, but each to their own.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 29th November 2020 at 9:03 PM.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

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  20. #20
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    I backed Shiskin to win after he won at Newbury and again each way on the day to take advantage of the place terms. Was hoping he would finish fifth at the top of the hill (extra places) given his mistake and having looked not to be travelling down the back, I thought my bets were gone. I was delighted to see Asterion Forlonge do what he did. My thoughts then, and now, is that taking out Captain Guinness and Elixir d'Ainay did more FOR Shiskin than against him. You are free to view it differently. When I saw it was Abracadabras that was in the lead, I knew I was in business.

    There are few horses I have seen quicken like he did at Newbury and is a horse of huge potential. However, it was against Shakem up Harry, and excuse me for thinking that waltzing home vs Mick Pastor doesnt tell us anything about his chasing ability.

    The question is why was Shiskin in his one proper race in an impossible position?

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