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Thread: Rain forecast and he's still watering

  1. #21
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    I have to say I thought this thread was a joke??

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    Diamond Geezer (23rd October 2020)

  3. #22
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    In this case, DO, I think you’re being unduly harsh, I have to say.
    I know I'm being harsh (not sure about 'unduly' so) but it seems every time a meeting comes up there is some discussion about the watering policy.

    I have no issue with watering to promote grass growth or even to take dangerous jar out of very firm ground (the going stick goes up to 15, remember, and we seldom see higher than 8 at NH courses even in the summer) but he often waters when there's plenty of rain forecast as was the case this week.

    If not as much rain falls as forecast so be it, he can always water lightly the night before to help but to do so when every forecast is saying 'rain' smacks of arrogance, as though he knows the majority of trainers won't mind an extra bit of give.

    Maybe some of the big guns, especially the local ones, are encouraging him to water so as not to have fast ground but I think it's unfair. Some of the most brilliant festival performances seen in recent years have happened when the ground has dried out naturally, when good-actioned horses have the chance to really stretch out on it.
    Illegitimi non carborundum


  4. #23
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    I’d posit that some of the greatest Festival-ground abberations of recent times were when Claisse failed to water; allowing quick ground to prevail all week, and rendering an entire season’s form-book utterly worthless.

    Quick ground horses have their options through the summer these days; it’s not like they are unduly penalised. Given the vast majority of NH horses want some give, I’ll stand for ground that is equitable (which G/G-S undoubtedly is) for Cheltenham’s Showcase meeting, than let it ride and rob many ‘winter’ horses of a natural starting-point. It’s not a meeting I want decimated by NRs due to the ground being too quick; no matter that I have an absolutely appalling record historically, over the two days.

    If any pressure is being applied by yards big or small, I think it’s fair enough. Rather that, than have a series of 4-runner fields composed of horses who would usually be at Perth or Rasen.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

  5. #24
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    I’d posit that some of the greatest Festival-ground abberations of recent times were when Claisse failed to water; allowing quick ground to prevail all week, and rendering an entire season’s form-book utterly worthless.
    I would suggest this supports my case. Those good-ground horses were probably disadvantaged through the winter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    Quick ground horses have their options through the summer these days; it’s not like they are unduly penalised. Given the vast majority of NH horses want some give, I’ll stand for ground that is equitable (which G/G-S undoubtedly is) for Cheltenham’s Showcase meeting, than let it ride and rob many ‘winter’ horses of a natural starting-point. It’s not a meeting I want decimated by NRs due to the ground being too quick; no matter that I have an absolutely appalling record historically, over the two days.
    A lot of the summer courses are watering. As far as I know there are only one or two tracks that don't have a watering system nowadays and with climate change we're seeing more heavy summer rain. The few existing opportunities for good-ground horses are diminishing. Leaving this weekend's meeting alone would have seen the ground no worse than 'good' because it did rain as forecast and wouldn't really have disadvantaged any horse any more than on 'good' ground during a festival.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    If any pressure is being applied by yards big or small, I think it’s fair enough. Rather that, than have a series of 4-runner fields composed of horses who would usually be at Perth or Rasen.
    The way the forecast was shaping up, I don't think the general make-up of the fields would be any different. A few of this weekend's races only have a handful of runners anyway as is often the case in the non-handicaps at this time of year.
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  6. #25
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    I don’t ncessarily buy the theory that horses are ‘disadvantaged’ by naturally slower/wetter ground. Some don’t go on it - that’s it. However, I do concede that if ‘natural ground’ is to apply equally, then watering should probably be considered an ‘unnatural’ adjustment.

    For me, it comes down to this. If 90% of NH horses in training need it softer, then I’m an advocate of producing ground conducive to the highest percentage of runners, and trainers of quick-ground horses can either make hay during the summer, or dry their eyes.

    The most important thing to me as a punter is that we get the biggest possible number of horses to post in each and every race. If that requires late-Autumn watering, I’ll stand for it, tbh.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 23rd October 2020 at 12:59 AM.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

  7. #26
    Senior Member barjon's Avatar
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    And what about the well-being of the horses? Venetia Williams, for example, will only run hers on soft because she reckons good to firm and better is damaging long term.

  8. #27
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    Claisse had to water. He won't water overnight tonight to avoid false ground and slipping on bends and on the landing side of fences, etc, If he started with ground close to good this afternoon, he'd risk ground good to firm before the end of racing tomorrow, and essentially nothing would turn up.

  9. #28
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    I reserve my right to disagree with you all.

    And Venetia.

    Illegitimi non carborundum


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    barjon (23rd October 2020)

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