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Thread: 2 Mile Chasers 20/21

  1. #41
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    The mare will come on heaps for that but agree it was a long way short of a QM winning performance


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  2. #42
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    Tough performance from the winner there.

    Good run from Duc Des Genievres - whether it was the blinkers or the wind op, he has certainly run a lot better than he has in recent times.

    Gutsy mare!

    Not quite sure what it means for Defi, thought he was jumping really well apart from the first, but went out like a light when asked!
    Last edited by Gaz's Way De Solzen; 15th November 2020 at 3:35 PM.

  3. #43
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    Nice one, Paul.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Maxbet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by viking View Post
    The mare will come on heaps for that but agree it was a long way short of a QM winning performance
    Next stop Cheltenham with nothing in between!
    Last edited by Maxbet; 15th November 2020 at 3:40 PM.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    I've dutched Riders Onthe Storm and Duc Des Genievres (just under 3/1 after the non-runners compared with about 7/2 beforehand). The Twister horse looked to me to be going as well as anything when coming down at the festival behind Min and St Calvados and is entitled to improve a fair bit into this season. Duc Des Genievres was impressive in his Arkle and the fact that Nicholls opts to introduce him here might be a tip in itself. I thought he’d be a strong Champion Chase candidate last season but he was the subject of a quiet campaign.

    Quality little race, though.
    Bastartin mares' allowance...

    Pleased for Maruco. It's no loss what a freen' gets.
    Illegitimi non carborundum


  6. #46
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    Defi I think does not enjoy that ground. Winning jock said it was tough out there and ground was same as last March when Defi also bombed out. Watching him come down the hill, he was clearly not getting his hind feet out of the ground. Add in that hideous mistake he made at the first. I think he’s pretty sensitive too which he showed when he was a novice and made mistakes. Some horses brush things off and don’t worry but I’m not sure he does.
    Chamberlin ridiculous statement to make “will we see Defi on a racecourse again....” At least AP slapped him down.
    tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito

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  8. #47
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Altior would have won that today,wouldn't he?
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  9. #48
    Senior Member Maxbet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by granger View Post
    Altior would have won that today, wouldn't he?


    Indeed!

  10. #49
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    I'm slightly surprised at the lack of dissenting voices regarding today's race.

    Clearly DDS didn't run his race, which was on the cards after the first fence, Rouge Vif was taken out and Riders Onthe Storm was taken off his feet after half a mile (much to my chagrin - I was hoping a strong pace would suit him).

    This pretty much left it as a two-horse race with PTKO rated just 155 and getting 4lbs from the 160-rated DDG so they were entitled to finish very close to each other.

    I suspect unless the handicapper has access to sectional times etc that paint a more positive picture of the race, he'll take a conservative view and rate DDG as running to his rating, thereby raising PTKO to about 158, so it will take a 166 male horse to beat her (leaving further improvement out of the equation for now) and Politologue is probably already better than that, as is DDS's best form.

    That's really just playing devil's advocate. Personally, I believe DDG was a good Arkle winner with a 165-170 performance in him but wasn't really asked for it in his second season chasing. Nicholls has clearly given him plenty of work and the wind-op has probably helped too but the horse maybe had a hard race here.

    It will be interesting to see how he now campaigns DDG compared with his other two-milers.

    We'll know more about what the handicapper thinks a week on Tuesday.
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  11. #50
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    DDG best in soft ground. Neither winner or he are proper champion chase class.

    Continues Nicholls rotten run with Sullivan's horses. (That was the most promising run so far.)

    DDS the most likely QM winner from the field. Interesting that both he and Sporting John ran consistent with their festival form this weekend.
    Last edited by HawkWing; 15th November 2020 at 6:30 PM.

  12. #51
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    Good post Mo.

    Perhaps come spring DDG is a Ryanair horse
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

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  14. #52
    Senior Member tiggers1972's Avatar
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    DDG hasn't won a race since his Arkle, which fell apart with all his main rivals not completing. Quite an underwhelming race looking back at it.

  15. #53
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiggers1972 View Post
    DDG hasn't won a race since his Arkle, which fell apart with all his main rivals not completing. Quite an underwhelming race looking back at it.
    ... in which case all the more reason to diss today's form.

    I went high with DDG's Arkle but maybe I was biased as I thought it was a bit of a good thing on the day but that was because I thought it was a below-par renewal. From my preview of that race:

    This may well be a substandard renewal, at least compared with the last few. Since Western Warhorse, rated just 135, sprang a 33/1 shock in 2014, the winners since then have had ORs of 166 (Un De Sceaux), 161 (Douvan), 170 (Altior) and 162 (Footpad). Nothing in this field is anywhere near that ball-park. Duc Des Genievres, if my figure for him is correct, might just be a little bit of a good thing. I expect Lalor, representing the Dynamite Dollars form, to be a bigger danger than the favourite Glen Forsa who looks a very false price.

    The highest OR on the day was Hardline's 153 but I had DDG 10lbs higher than that.
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  16. #54
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    Seems a dodgy division at the top.
    Altior imo too old
    Chacun is a sick note waiting to happen
    Defi I can't trust now
    Put the Kettle On I'm not convinced quality wise

    So that makes me interested in:
    Notebook. Too many races last year? Looked quality prior to the Arkle. Will be fresher next March than last.
    Cilaos Emery. Not great the other day but 2m might be his trip
    Le Richbourg. What has happened with this one, is he even still in training.

  17. #55
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    I'd really like to see Altior get back to his best. The last I saw online he was due a racecourse gallop. I liked the way Putthekettleon dug deep today to get up. Surprised people are questioning the form already. PTKO beat what was there to beat today. That's all you can ask at this stage of the season I'd have thought.
    Last edited by Marb; 16th November 2020 at 12:18 AM.

  18. #56
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    I’d much rather see Defi aiming for the Ryanair.

    PTKO hated every bit of that today, and still got there. One of few horses tk come from a mile bsck the last couple of days. She was a bet before today’s race for QMCC but at 8s, she’s about her price now.

    Same price as Altior? Jeez. Some value there somewhere.

  19. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euronymous View Post
    Seems a dodgy division at the top.
    Altior imo too old
    Chacun is a sick note waiting to happen
    Defi I can't trust now
    Put the Kettle On I'm not convinced quality wise

    So that makes me interested in:
    Notebook. Too many races last year? Looked quality prior to the Arkle. Will be fresher next March than last.
    Cilaos Emery. Not great the other day but 2m might be his trip
    Le Richbourg. What has happened with this one, is he even still in training.
    Something happen the champion?

  20. #58
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    I have a lot of time for Notebook still
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  21. #59
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    My assessment of the race is that PTKO hated the heavy ground and struggled to travel in it, whereas DDG loved every minute of it and galloped and jumped for fun. Despite the fact that she didn't get the lead she would have wanted and Coleman probably had her too far back, once he got her racing she had the class to pick him up when he wasn't stopping, and she absolutely devoured the hill.

    People say she has it all to prove, but I'd argue she has less to prove than Altior and Chacun right now. Age and fitness are more of a concern than PTKO's ability that constantly keep getting underrated by those that weren't on her last March. Cheltenham is made for her, and she seems to have that perfect blend of speed, stamina, and jumping ability. And a very handy 7lb pull with the boys.

    Anyone who hasn't got her onside at least each way for a Champion Chase that will at best have three serious contenders is in complete denial. It's time to let the Arkle go if you convinced yourself it was a poor one. It wasn't. The Champion Chase was though, and as I said the big two that were missing, Altior and Chacun, have more to prove than she does now.

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  23. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maruco View Post
    Anyone who hasn't got her onside at least each way for a Champion Chase that will at best have three serious contenders is in complete denial.
    I was all over her for the Arkle...waded in, even more after watching the pre-race interview with De Bromhead....But the one concern I have here is they may do a Honeysuckle, and be tempted to go for the new Mare's chase over 2m4f.
    This has surely crossed your mind Paul?

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