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  1. #101
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    ITV were really quite aggressive throughout the day in saying he had no chance due to the distance and left handed nature of the track. I'm not surprised Nicholls was as curt with them post race as he was having spent his morning effectively being told he didn't know what he was doing by Thomson.

    Of course he still has more to prove and bigger challenges await, but in so far as the challenge before him yesterday relates, I'm not sure what else he could have done?

    He's gagged up beating a decent yardstick in Vinndication without really breaking sweat. Given how he's finished off his races before, I wouldn't be in the club that he had little left. If Cobden really wanted to, he could have pushed him right out to the line and won by 8-10 but clearly they're minding him for Boxing Day which the owner is desperate for.

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  3. #102
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Cyrname was never in any trouble at any stage during the race. Like Bonjers, I just don’t see anything that suggests he was emptying at the end.....pushed out to win very cosily, was my read on the race.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 1st November 2020 at 2:28 PM.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

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  4. #103
    Senior Member barjon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonjers View Post
    ITV were really quite aggressive throughout the day in saying he had no chance due to the distance and left handed nature of the track. I'm not surprised Nicholls was as curt with them post race as he was having spent his morning effectively being told he didn't know what he was doing by Thomson.

    Of course he still has more to prove and bigger challenges await, but in so far as the challenge before him yesterday relates, I'm not sure what else he could have done?

    He's gagged up beating a decent yardstick in Vinndication without really breaking sweat. Given how he's finished off his races before, I wouldn't be in the club that he had little left. If Cobden really wanted to, he could have pushed him right out to the line and won by 8-10 but clearly they're minding him for Boxing Day which the owner is desperate for.
    Agree absolutely. I don’t know what doubters want from a horse, here’s the top rated horse in country, winning comfortably, showing no signs of distress, having jumped straight and true throughout. He was a gift at the price, because Nicholls simply wouldn’t have chanced him if he’d had any doubts about handling the course or distance.

  5. #104
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barjon View Post
    Nicholls simply wouldn’t have chanced him if he’d had any doubts about handling the course or distance.
    At this stage of the season, Nicholls is more than capable of experimenting with tracks and distances. He was probably confident that Cyrname would be okay but it was the betting market that arrived at the price and the market doesn't always get it right. I was tempted until Harvey banged on about how "exceptional" Vinndication looked beforehand. It's probably fair to presume that Vinndication has run his race but he really needed Cyrname to be seriously inconvenienced either by the trip or track, neither of which happened.
    Two's company, three's allowed.

  6. #105
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    Nicholls thinks Cyrname hasn't the pace for the Ryanair and sees no reason why he won't get the Gold Cup trip.

    Emmm Good luck with the Gold Cup!
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

  7. #106
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    As I said before, if they were to crawl around he'd have a shot. Real Steel turned in this year looking like he'd joined in at the top of the hill carrying 10 stone before he fell away up the hill and he's a stone shy of Cyrname.

    Saying that, I'd be astonished if the pace of the race wasn't anything but frenetic with Native River probably back, Indo liking to be prominent and Nicky probably wanting something to set a strong gallop for Santini and Champ to take advantage from the back of the last.

    He's not a betting proposition as it stands, but he would be a fascinating contender.

  8. #107
    Senior Member barjon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    At this stage of the season, Nicholls is more than capable of experimenting with tracks and distances. He was probably confident that Cyrname would be okay but it was the betting market that arrived at the price and the market doesn't always get it right. I was tempted until Harvey banged on about how "exceptional" Vinndication looked beforehand. It's probably fair to presume that Vinndication has run his race but he really needed Cyrname to be seriously inconvenienced either by the trip or track, neither of which happened.
    True enough, but I’d hazard a guess that Nicholl’s wouldn’t have wanted to risk over-taxing him given how long it took him to get over the hard race with Altior. Agree that Vinnndication ran his race and he finished closer to Cyrname than the relative ratings would suggest, but that’s down to Cyrname not being hard pushed so having some in hand. There still has to be some doubt as to whether he’ll stay the distance in a hard run Gold Cup, but this race didn’t suggest that he wouldn’t.

  9. #108
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    A horse that jumps that well, will stay further.

    I'm not on the side of thinking he looked in any way like stopping yesterday
    Some people say heís the best since Arkle and thatís certainly true when you look at what heís done

  10. #109
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    Nicholls was saying for years that Silviniaco Conti and Clan des Obeaux had no issue with Cheltenham. Years.

    Cyrname outclassed a grade 2 field, and would do so over most distances. One Man won a Hennessey was just about literally legless up the hill come march. Good to have a variety of views.

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  12. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by granger View Post
    A horse that jumps that well, will stay further.
    Not sure that this computes.

  13. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkWing View Post
    Not sure that this computes.
    It's got to help to some degree, hasn't it? He's very economical whilst being accurate so he's not wasting energy either through the air or by being niggled at on landing. Of course it doesn't guarantee anything, but he's giving himself more of a chance by doing so.

  14. #112
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    Liked that performance from Imperial Aura - finds plenty when asked. Wouldn't like to guess at where his long term aspirations are though!

  15. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonjers View Post
    It's got to help to some degree, hasn't it? He's very economical whilst being accurate so he's not wasting energy either through the air or by being niggled at on landing. Of course it doesn't guarantee anything, but he's giving himself more of a chance by doing so.
    yes, it helps a horse but the most accurate most economical jumpers arent automatically the best stayers. I'm not disputing that he is a fantastic jumper - electric - and where there are four fences in the last four furlongs on a flat track - he can cheat a length or two over lesser jumpers. It doesn't mean that he will stay extreme distances.
    Last edited by HawkWing; 1st November 2020 at 4:26 PM.

  16. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkWing View Post
    Not sure that this computes.
    A horse that jumps like that, isn't a tired horse
    Some people say heís the best since Arkle and thatís certainly true when you look at what heís done

  17. #115
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    I thought the important thing aside from jumping straight was how Cyrname settled. He’s tended to run with choke out, and I thought he ran a nice race for a horse that is intended to be stepped up in trip. I wouldn’t back against him getting a trip, but I do think he’ll find one or two see it out better if he goes to the Gold Cup.

  18. #116
    Senior Member G-G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkWing View Post
    I think that's partly the point - who was saying he was hapless left handed? I guess those who allowed him to go off at the price he was. He happened to have his improvement coincide with racing right-handed. Isn't Wetherby two long straights and gentle sweeping bends? If, and dont think there ever really was a concern, I dont think it was proven yesterday. If he was in better company coming up the centre of the track rather than tight to the rails "may" have caused some issues. (I doubt it though).
    .
    Never under any pressure though, and Cheltenham and a more competitive race I still think might find him out. Was allowed to take his time at the fences, and some of the jumps looked very deliberate , as in under no pressure to go for a long one or.....
    He's a very good horse, that is not in doubt, but even some of the very best don't , or can't, handle Cheltenham.
    I'm playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order.

  19. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-G View Post
    Never under any pressure though, and Cheltenham and a more competitive race I still think might find him out. Was allowed to take his time at the fences, and some of the jumps looked very deliberate , as in under no pressure to go for a long one or.....
    He's a very good horse, that is not in doubt, but even some of the very best don't , or can't, handle Cheltenham.
    I'd agree. If he needed to beat Vinndication by 8l, for whatever reason, he would need to have been ridden very differently. He would have needed to put that 8l clear earlier in the race.

    Contrary to many (and that's fine) he wasn't scooting clear from the last - and he was pushed out - but no more than he needed to be. Cobden did have a little check after the last to see what Vinndication was doing. When he wasn't going to get reeled in, he coasted - maintaining the couple of lengths lead. He beat Vinndication by 2l, Aye Right, and a rogues gallery.

    Anyway, I think he is good enough to win grade 1s at shorter distances and a bad 3m one. He may well be the most talented horse in training. But I'm more convinced that he wont stay in a proper Grade 1 3m race, where he doesnt have the luxury to outclass the animals. I'd go Tingle Creek with him, see who would live with him over the railways.

  20. #118
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    I thought he won nicely and he traveled very well throughout the race. I imagine Nichols is thrilled heís got him back to racing with the same ease as when he won the King George. The CGC is a different kettle of fish and he may be one of those horses better suited to a flat 3m.
    Ireland. Samcro mullered the third last but had been travelling well up to that point. Iíd be v happy with that run and also with the winner. The ICC was a cracker. On paper and in reality. Loved the way they all lined up with a chance going into the second last, all jostling for a position. Next time the result could go a different way. Some good horses all taking each other on. Whatís not to like?
    tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito

  21. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by jinnyj View Post
    I thought he won nicely and he traveled very well throughout the race. I imagine Nichols is thrilled heís got him back to racing with the same ease as when he won the King George. The CGC is a different kettle of fish
    Who are you talking about here?

  22. #120
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jinnyj View Post
    The ICC was a cracker. On paper and in reality. Loved the way they all lined up with a chance going into the second last, all jostling for a position. Next time the result could go a different way.
    Usually the sign of a good handicap
    Two's company, three's allowed.

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