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  1. #1
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    Epsom Derby 2020

    At this stage it's as open and competative a derby as I have seen.

    Dettori now takes the ride on the favourite English King.

    A final classic clue could be this Wednesday when Highest Ground makes his seasonal debut. He has to beat Waldkonig.

    If he does manage this, at least it will look like good form. I am tempted to take a chance on Highest Ground before Wednesday for the Derby.

    Odds of 25/1 really could collapse couldn't they....
    Last edited by Marb; 22nd June 2020 at 7:15 PM.

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  3. #2
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    I was thinking how refreshing it would be for a relatively small yard to train the winner but I hope he loses now. That’s rough on Tom who is 2/2 on him.

    Military March for me anyway
    Alcohol, because no good story ever started with "I was eating this salad..."

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    Senior Member G-G's Avatar
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    Does anyone know if the early entry fees were refunded out of curiousity?
    Baby maybe better come back next week, can't you see I'm on a losing streak

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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsonl View Post
    I was thinking how refreshing it would be for a relatively small yard to train the winner but I hope he loses now. That’s rough on Tom who is 2/2 on him.
    I used to hate it when Piggott got to jock off regular riders of fancied Derby horses.

    I suppose this means Gosden doesn't have anything for it and Coolmore don't plan to offer him anything.
    Two's company, three's allowed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G-G View Post
    Does anyone know if the early entry fees were refunded out of curiousity?
    That is what they said on ITV last week GG

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    Senior Member simmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-G View Post
    Does anyone know if the early entry fees were refunded out of curiousity?
    I believe I heard something of that nature.
    Alba Gu Brath!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsonl View Post
    I was thinking how refreshing it would be for a relatively small yard to train the winner but I hope he loses now. That’s rough on Tom who is 2/2 on him.

    Military March for me anyway
    If you are a small stable you probably only get one shot at the Derby. It's a complete no brainer to go to Frankie. I'd ask you to watch Tom on Born To Please at Royal Ascot last week where he chased a suicidal pace. Dettori does not make mistakes like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim View Post
    If you are a small stable you probably only get one shot at the Derby. It's a complete no brainer to go to Frankie. I'd ask you to watch Tom on Born To Please at Royal Ascot last week where he chased a suicidal pace. Dettori does not make mistakes like that.
    I do get this, and I backed Born With Pride - who even the normally non-critical RP analysis says received an ďill judged rideĒ. And the owner did state that itís probably the only fancied horse heíll ever have in the race.

    Itís still tough on the lad, whoís had a very decent season to date and has ridden 6 winners from his last 13 rides
    Alcohol, because no good story ever started with "I was eating this salad..."

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    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    Assuming Moore will be on Vatican City!
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

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    Senior Member Euronymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsonl View Post
    I was thinking how refreshing it would be for a relatively small yard to train the winner but I hope he loses now. Thatís rough on Tom who is 2/2 on him.
    Funny really. I like the horse but the doubt I'd have about him would be the trainer not the original jockey.

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    Records for the two over the Derby course since 2017:

    DETTORI

    Date Race Horse Position SP £100 win £50 each way
    26 Apr 2017 3:15 Epsom BARWICK 3/9 12-1 -100 70
    2 Jun 2017 3:10 Epsom JOURNEY 5/10 7-2 -200 -30
    2 Jun 2017 4:30 Epsom ENABLE 1/9 6-1 400 330
    3 Jun 2017 4:30 Epsom CRACKSMAN 3/18 7-2 300 315
    3 Jun 2017 5:15 Epsom SHRAAOH 4/10 5-4 200 215
    1 Jun 2018 3:10 Epsom CRACKSMAN 1/6 2-7 228 232
    2 Jun 2018 4:30 Epsom HAZAPOUR 5/12 12-1 128 132
    31 May 2019 3:10 Epsom LAH TI DAR 6/9 11-4 28 32
    31 May 2019 4:30 Epsom ANAPURNA 1/14 8-1 828 512
    1 Jun 2019 4:30 Epsom CIRCUS MAXIMUS 6/13 10-1 728 412

    Totals

    Bets Wins Win Strike Rate Win %Return at SP Placed (inc wins) Place Strike Rate Each-Way %Return at SP
    All Selections 10 3 30.0% 172.9% 5 50.0% 141.3%






    MARQUAND


    Date Race Horse Position SP £100 win £50 each way
    3 Jun 2017 5:15 Epsom GAWDAWPALIN 9/10 9-2 -100 -100
    3 Aug 2017 6:25 Epsom SAFIRA MENINA 4/6 9-2 -200 -200
    25 Apr 2018 3:20 Epsom C'EST NO MOUR 13/13 12-1 -300 -300
    28 Aug 2018 3:50 Epsom AMANTO 4/8 10-3 -400 -400
    4 Jul 2019 8:20 Epsom FORESEE 5/11 6-1 -500 -500
    18 Jul 2019 8:15 Epsom EL BORRACHO 5/5 4-1 -600 -600

    Totals

    Bets Wins Win Strike Rate Win %Return at SP Placed (inc wins) Place Strike Rate Each-Way %Return at SP
    All Selections 6 0 0.0% 0.0% 0 0.0% 0.0%


    Figures from the excellent and FREE​ Adrian Massey site.
    Ah! but a man's reach should exceed his grasp......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim View Post
    If you are a small stable you probably only get one shot at the Derby. It's a complete no brainer to go to Frankie. I'd ask you to watch Tom on Born To Please at Royal Ascot last week where he chased a suicidal pace. Dettori does not make mistakes like that.
    Nail on the head

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    Senior Member Maxbet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    I suppose this means Gosden doesn't have anything for it and Coolmore don't plan to offer him anything.

    It's not as if he's jumping on an outsider Do....Phone call comes: "I'll give you a call back in 20 mins, just want to see if Aiden got a second string for me"

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    Senior Member Maxbet's Avatar
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    What's the odds, Aiden gives Marquand a call.

    Gets up on the line to deny Frankie, prophetic


    https://www.racingpost.com/news/its-...booking/436157
    Last edited by Maxbet; 23rd June 2020 at 10:28 AM.

  19. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Phillips View Post
    Records for the two over the Derby course since 2017:

    DETTORI

    Date Race Horse Position SP £100 win £50 each way
    26 Apr 2017 3:15 Epsom BARWICK 3/9 12-1 -100 70
    2 Jun 2017 3:10 Epsom JOURNEY 5/10 7-2 -200 -30
    2 Jun 2017 4:30 Epsom ENABLE 1/9 6-1 400 330
    3 Jun 2017 4:30 Epsom CRACKSMAN 3/18 7-2 300 315
    3 Jun 2017 5:15 Epsom SHRAAOH 4/10 5-4 200 215
    1 Jun 2018 3:10 Epsom CRACKSMAN 1/6 2-7 228 232
    2 Jun 2018 4:30 Epsom HAZAPOUR 5/12 12-1 128 132
    31 May 2019 3:10 Epsom LAH TI DAR 6/9 11-4 28 32
    31 May 2019 4:30 Epsom ANAPURNA 1/14 8-1 828 512
    1 Jun 2019 4:30 Epsom CIRCUS MAXIMUS 6/13 10-1 728 412

    Totals

    Bets Wins Win Strike Rate Win %Return at SP Placed (inc wins) Place Strike Rate Each-Way %Return at SP
    All Selections 10 3 30.0% 172.9% 5 50.0% 141.3%






    MARQUAND


    Date Race Horse Position SP £100 win £50 each way
    3 Jun 2017 5:15 Epsom GAWDAWPALIN 9/10 9-2 -100 -100
    3 Aug 2017 6:25 Epsom SAFIRA MENINA 4/6 9-2 -200 -200
    25 Apr 2018 3:20 Epsom C'EST NO MOUR 13/13 12-1 -300 -300
    28 Aug 2018 3:50 Epsom AMANTO 4/8 10-3 -400 -400
    4 Jul 2019 8:20 Epsom FORESEE 5/11 6-1 -500 -500
    18 Jul 2019 8:15 Epsom EL BORRACHO 5/5 4-1 -600 -600

    Totals

    Bets Wins Win Strike Rate Win %Return at SP Placed (inc wins) Place Strike Rate Each-Way %Return at SP
    All Selections 6 0 0.0% 0.0% 0 0.0% 0.0%


    Figures from the excellent and FREE​ Adrian Massey site.
    Those stats look compelling but would it be a fair comparison? Frankie was riding top horses for top trainers in the top races. It looks like Marquand was riding in handicaps or less well fancied runners in the better races.

    Still, I've been saying for at least 10 years now that no jockey since Piggott rides Epsom better than Dettori.
    Two's company, three's allowed.

  20. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbet View Post
    It's not as if he's jumping on an outsider Do....Phone call comes: "I'll give you a call back in 20 mins, just want to see if Aiden got a second string for me"
    Accepted.
    Two's company, three's allowed.

  21. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbet View Post
    What's the odds, Aiden gives Marquand a call.

    Gets up on the line to deny Frankie, prophetic


    https://www.racingpost.com/news/its-...booking/436157
    It would certainly make for a story.
    Two's company, three's allowed.

  22. #18
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    I think the Epsom track is difficult to ride and takes a bit of knowing. I agree I was comparing apples to onions but I was hoping that the up and comer had had some success there. Personal opinion but I think the old man is riding very well since we've been back racing.

    It would have been nice for Marquand to keep the ride but the trainer has to do what he thinks is the best for the owner. It can be a cut-throat business.
    Ah! but a man's reach should exceed his grasp......

  23. #19
    Senior Member Perpetual's Avatar
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    If he was my horse, I’d probably do the same thing

    Tom was interviewed about it on ATR last night and came across brilliantly: https://twitter.com/i/status/1275109824024502274

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marb View Post
    At this stage it's as open and competative a derby as I have seen.

    Dettori now takes the ride on the favourite English King.

    A final classic clue could be this Wednesday when Highest Ground makes his seasonal debut. He has to beat Waldkonig.

    If he does manage this, at least it will look like good form. I am tempted to take a chance on Highest Ground before Wednesday for the Derby.

    Odds of 25/1 really could collapse couldn't they....
    Is this going to run? Someone on Twitter saying it is still 16/1. They pulled a furlong clear and he murdered the 2nd.

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