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  1. #221
    Senior Member barjon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reet hard View Post
    But the sectionals (and the RP analysis) show it wasn't a testing pace?
    Fair enough, I haven’t looked in detail.

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    reet hard (7th September 2020)

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  4. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmo View Post
    The pace was what you would expect from someone trying to win from the front. A race in early September wouldn't be used as a training exercise for another in Nov imo.
    Missed this, Simmo.
    The pace was a nonsense, as shown by the finishing speed of the principals. Wouldn't know how, or why, AOB trains horses as he does,but he certainly has a history of prepping them in gp1 races.
    “Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ”
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  5. #223
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    Just read Simon Rowland's take on the Moulin:

    https://www.attheraces.com/blogs/sec...parislongchamp

    While I'm a big believer in sectionals, I often feel they're misinterpreted by assuming they can be reduced to mathematical formulae.
    Now, SR has championed Pinatubo's cause as a miler, all season, despite extensive evidence to the contrary, and compounds the error in this piece by bumping him up in a slowly run race.
    James Doyle said, after the race "We were mindful of the mile", a clear indication of P's doubtful stamina, yet SR condemns Doyle's judgement of pace,and - by association -Charlie Appleby's judgement of form.
    Pinatubo is not a top level miler, imo, and despite a number of RP pundits promoting him for the Breeder's Cup Mile (earlier this week) I'd expect him to prove so,even racing around a saucer, in the States.
    Last edited by reet hard; 12th September 2020 at 9:15 AM.
    “Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ”
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  6. #224
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reet hard View Post
    James Doyle said, after the race "We were mindful of the mile", a clear indication of P's doubtful stamina, yet SR condemns Doyle's judgement of pace,and - by association -Charlie Appleby's judgement of form.
    He was always going to be played late. Doyle clearly gave the winner to much rope though.

    Move on.
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

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  7. #225
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    Pinatubo's not a miler - face it!
    “Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ”
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  8. #226
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    So you think Pinatubo wasn't unlucky then?
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

  9. #227
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    See #223.
    The same applies to you.
    “Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  10. #228
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    In simple terms, Frankel: had he used his limited stamina earlier, he'd probably've been beaten further.
    “Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  11. #229
    Senior Member barjon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reet hard View Post
    In simple terms, Frankel: had he used his limited stamina earlier, he'd probably've been beaten further.
    I think Doyle had an extremely difficult job, he had to go with an early pace that was right on the edge of what Pinatubo could cope with if he was to last home. As it turned out he did last home and Doyle could probably have gone just a touch quicker which may, or may not, have been enough. Certainly, as you say, he couldn’t have gone near the pace without being beaten further and I think Doyle may have got it wrong , but only just and certainly not enough to warrant the criticism that has come his way.
    Last edited by barjon; 13th September 2020 at 11:28 AM.

  12. #230
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    They finished the race fast. He was never going to pick up the winner who wasn't stopping either.
    Regardless of trip, you don't give that much rope when pace is not strong.

    Look, he made a mistake, it happens.
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

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  13. #231
    Senior Member barjon's Avatar
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    Amazing the number of top horses that bit the dust over the weekend and got nowhere near their running. Strengthens my conviction (might be my wallet talking) that horses are going over a bit early this year.

  14. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankel View Post
    They finished the race fast. He was never going to pick up the winner who wasn't stopping either.
    Regardless of trip, you don't give that much rope when pace is not strong.

    Look, he made a mistake, it happens.
    Nah, you made the mistake (along with plenty others) in assuming he was a miler, and like a few of those, you'll float any excuse to cover your own ineptitude.
    “Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ”
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  15. #233
    Senior Member simmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reet hard View Post
    you'll float any excuse to cover your own ineptitude.
    You don;t have a great record of backing winners yourself.

    Edit: in fact, didn't you back the 3rd in this race - that seems more inept than backing the 2nd to me. Very poor behaviour on your part.
    Last edited by simmo; 14th September 2020 at 12:59 AM.
    Alba Gu Brath!

  16. #234
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    Aye, we all make mistakes Simmo: Frankel's was in being persistently wrong about the same horse.
    “Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  17. #235
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    Dear God!

    How have I been wrong about Pinatubo!

    2000 Guineas - Watching brief (not convinced he would have improved).
    SJP - Was correctly in Palace Pier camp.
    Jean Prat - Correctly with Pinatubo.
    Moulin - Watching brief again as I have previously stated he would be suited by the Jean Prat trip.
    Truth is it may be somewhere inbetween.

    So this notion I have been championing Pinatubo is amusing. It's called analysis. So which part of my previous comments are incorrect?

    Did they finish fast?
    Was he given too much to do?
    Last edited by Frankel; 14th September 2020 at 7:29 AM.
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

  18. #236
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    Recall you saying the Sussex would be ideal for him, for starters.(And I told you he wouldn't go near it).
    “Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  19. #237
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    Yep I said Goodwood is possibly one place he could overturn the form but PP would beat him anywhere else. But no surprise he goes to France to run over what is probably his optimum in the Jean Prat.

    Hope that has cleared that up!
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

  20. #238
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    Maybe you could show us where you put put the SJP & Jean Prat winnners up - before the race, naturally?
    “Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  21. #239
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    Ok so going down this route now.
    I backed One Master and Port Guillaume which lost if that makes you feel any better.

    Best not say I backed Stone of Destiny and Chindit though
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

  22. #240
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    I've been out of commission for a few days. Is it true that Mogul ran EACH of the last five furlongs i under 12 seconds on Sunday?
    Two's company, three's allowed.

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