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Thread: Cheltenham Race Reviews

  1. #361
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    Ronald Pump has had 16 hurdles outings, and has found his level. Don't know where you think any improvement is going to come from that would justify a ++, Maruco.
    From March last year up to the festival this year, RP had just four runs over hurdles. His ORs went:

    123, 136, 145, 156.

    By any measurement that has to represent improvement. According to the IHRB site he's still rated 156 so you could argue that the curve has reached its plateau. Perhaps the database hasn't been updated yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    The Stayers remains a turd of a race, and all of the principals are massively vulnerable next season, imo.
    I agree that the way this race was runs renders it largely negligible but I've looked through it for angles with which to tag a meaningful rating for each of the principals. It looks like Maruco has done likewise and reached similar conclusions.

    Whether I would rely on those ratings to be supported by future form is another matter.

    Big field handicaps tend to be - though not always - more truly run and the form tends equally to be more reliable.

    What many punters (and pundits, sadly) seem not to appreciate is just how much winning they take, most especially modern-day festival handicaps. Horse handicapped to win decent Saturday TV handicaps are lucky to run into a place in the main festival handicaps nowadays. But because the handicapper knows he'll be crucified for raising a narrow winner 14lbs he lets them off relatively lightly thereby enabling connections to campaign him for a race a further twelve months down the line.

    What happens in between is that these horses come out and run when they're only fannying about at home and not being trained seriously, getting well backed because they're festival winners but disappointing so punters end up questioning the value of the form.

    Of course, sometimes the race takes so much winning it leaves its mark on the horse (eg UTPT after its second Ultima) that it's simply gone.
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  3. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    Horse handicapped to win decent Saturday TV handicaps are lucky to run into a place in the main festival handicaps nowadays.
    Cc Paul Nicholls

  4. #363
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    Here is a list of forum members whose opinions have changed since before the festival:

  5. #364
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    I should add, I keep looking at the Boodles to try and get a proper handle on it.

    There's at least one angle that suggests it might have been a higher-class race than the Triumph and one that suggests it was perhaps up there with the Champion Hurdle. Right now I'm looking for good reasons other than 'can't-possibly-be' for dismissing them.
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  6. #365
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    Ronald Pump: could have a crack at the French Champion Hurdle next

    By David Jennings
    MAR 29 2020

    Stayers' Hurdle runner-up Ronald Pump, who was bought for just €1,000, could tackle the French Champion Hurdle in May if the restrictions caused by coronavirus are lessened in the coming weeks.

    Trainer Matthew Smith admitted he was left wondering what could have been at the festival had his 20-1 shot not endured a troubled passage up the home straight nor crashed through the final flight.

    Despite getting little luck in running, Ronald Pump still managed to get within two lengths of the winner Lisnagar Oscar and Smith is keen to have a crack at the Grande Course de Haies d'Auteuil (French Champion Hurdle) on May 16, a race Benie Des Dieux won so impressively last year.

    Smith said: "It was a brilliant run at Cheltenham and we were obviously thrilled with him, but I was a little bit disappointed as he didn't get much luck on the way down to the last. He didn't jump the last well at all either. In fact, he didn't jump well on the day. He's usually much better than that.

    "If someone had offered me second before the race, I would have snapped their hand off but when you look back at the replay it's hard not to feel a bit disappointed. I wasn't surprised he ran so well. I would have been shocked had he not finished in the first three."

    On plans for the seven-year-old, Smith said: "There are a lot of options in France and I'm strongly considering having a go at the French Champion Hurdle. It would be right up his street and the prize-money is good. There are quite a few races in France I had my eye on but who knows what's going to happen with this coronavirus.

    "He's in great form but his back was very sore after Cheltenham and that was probably why he didn't jump as well as he can."

    The ultimate aim for Ronald Pump is another bid at the Stayers' Hurdle next season, and his trainer added: "Fingers crossed we'll get back there in the same sort of form. He'll stay hurdling anyway."
    Last edited by Marb; 29th March 2020 at 8:28 PM.

  7. #366
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    FFS the French Champion is about as likely to go ahead as ******* Aintree. Dave Jennings another stupid **** stealing a ******* living.

  8. #367
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    In other news:

    March 29 2020

    Talkinghorses forum contributor Desert Orchid, who can be had for just £1000, could have his way with TV presenter and former world poker champion Victoria Coren, weatherwoman Carol Kirkwood and Countdown's Rachel Riley all at the same time in the stayers' humpathon in May if coronavirus restrictions are lifted.

    The contributor was disappointed that his attempt at servicing all three failed at the Cheltenham festival in March as none of the four were there.

    He said, "If you'd told me beforehand that I'd have done all three I'd have snapped your hand off, but thinking about it now, I was really unlucky as I was unable to leave the house. I've no idea what happened to the burdz and I look forward to having another go next year as that's what I'll be training myself for."
    Last edited by Desert Orchid; 30th March 2020 at 12:04 AM.
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  10. #368
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    The horse only cost a grand. Another reason for me to admire. If he wins a French Champion Hurdle he shortens for the Stayers. Don't let your biases get in the way of a good anti-post punting angle.
    Last edited by Marb; 30th March 2020 at 7:50 AM.

  11. #369
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    I have nothing against the horse.

    My post was a pop at DJ's piece. It's a complete space-filler.

    It's a great story for racing that it only cost a grand.

    It could win a French Champion Hurdle when you consider how many second-rate winners there have been.

    As for next year's Stayers', he couldn't win this year's when it fell completely apart and next year he'll still have Paisley Park and Lisnagar Oscar to deal with plus the new kids on the block.

    In the lead up to this year's festival you hammered on about this horse and ended up being proved wrong on all counts before admitting a few days beforehand that you hadn't even backed the thing yet.

    Have you backed RP for next year's stayers' hurdle yet? If not, why not? And why go on about ante-post angles if you've no intention of exploiting them?
    Last edited by Desert Orchid; 30th March 2020 at 9:36 AM.
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  12. #370
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    I hammered on that I wanted him in the pertemps as he was looking like a potential winner to me and was 16/1 but that I wouldn't back him until the weights came out.

    At about that time it was clear from trainer comments he was going for the Stayers. I was happy to watch and see at this point. I also fancied Emitom so wasn't mad keen to back Ronald Pump even though as I said to Maxbet before raceday I thought Ronald Pump would run very well..

    How exactly I was "wrong about him" I really don't know. All I ever said was he was a very good hurdler and could win the pertemps even off 156. I think bullshit of this enormity will have plenty of people who saw how much I was championing Ronald Pump before the Festival in uproar!

    You really are a very clever pretentious sod at times!
    Last edited by Marb; 30th March 2020 at 10:39 AM.

  13. #371
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Tell me what you really think of me, Marb
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  14. #372
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    Nah I'd much rather keep talking about Ronald Pump.

    I will screen shot my bets on him for next years stayers hurdle, in the run up to next years festival especially for you and this place.

    Okey cokey.
    Last edited by Marb; 30th March 2020 at 11:05 AM.

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  16. #373
    Senior Member simmo's Avatar
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    I don't get why we're baiting marb over this. Effectively, he tipped up a 50-1 shot that finished second - worthy of the long shot thread if you ask me.
    Last edited by simmo; 30th March 2020 at 11:17 AM.

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  18. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    In other news:

    March 29 2020

    Talkinghorses forum contributor Desert Orchid, who can be had for just £1000, could have his way with TV presenter and former world poker champion Victoria Coren, weatherwoman Carol Kirkwood and Countdown's Rachel Riley all at the same time in the stayers' humpathon in May if coronavirus restrictions are lifted.

    The contributor was disappointed that his attempt at servicing all three failed at the Cheltenham festival in March as none of the four were there.

    He said, "If you'd told me beforehand that I'd have done all three I'd have snapped your hand off, but thinking about it now, I was really unlucky as I was unable to leave the house. I've no idea what happened to the burdz and I look forward to having another go next year as that's what I'll be training myself for."

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  20. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmo View Post
    I don't get why we're baiting marb over this. Effectively, he tipped up a 50-1 shot that finished second - worthy of the long shot thread if you ask me.
    Well said, & if it had been his selection, he'd be dining out on it for the next 2 decades,at least
    Last edited by reet hard; 30th March 2020 at 12:01 PM.

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  22. #376
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmo View Post
    I don't get why we're baiting marb over this. Effectively, he tipped up a 50-1 shot that finished second - worthy of the long shot thread if you ask me.
    I agree, to be honest. It was a good early spot at the odds but with no realistic chance of winning either race.
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  24. #377
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Now that we knows he stays and will have some more fun around hurdling

    What can they plot him for on his return to chasing?
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  25. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by granger View Post
    Now that we knows he stays and will have some more fun around hurdling

    What can they plot him for on his return to chasing?
    Best case scenario he gets 150 or at a real push 148/149. Paddy Power Chase an obvious target. His trainer is seriously shrewd so if he does go back over fences expect there to be a rock solid plan in place.
    Last edited by Slim; 30th March 2020 at 1:46 PM.

  26. #379
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    I'd have thought Paddy Power too

    I do hope to see him fencing again
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  27. #380
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Are we still talking about Ronald Pump?

    I'd have thought his hurdling improvement was partly down to appreciating getting away from the bigger obstacles.

    He's unlikely to get a chasing mark in the UK less than 156, I'd have thought. They might need to put him away for at least a year to is mark down. He'd have a lot of G2/3 staying hurdles at his mercy as well as the odd weak G1 in which he could be competitive.
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