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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2017diary View Post
    You might notice that I gave an example earlier using four 20/1 winners. That's for the day when you give us those four winners
    Ha ha, I did get two 33s together in a bet but they were on different days of Cheltenham.2009.
    I will keep trying though.

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  3. #22
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Over the course of the last season or two, I’ve been doing more each-way multiples for the Festival, whereas previously I would usually do Win Only.

    I tend bet early (will usually have a few down before the season really kicks-off), and continue to build multiples throughout the season. I essentially ignore early NRNB concessions, and am happy* to take a bigger-price, and accept the risk of not getting a run.

    It’s anathema to me, not to bet ante-post for the Festival......something which applies equally to most early-closing races (BVGC, Hennessy, KG, Betfair Hurdle etc).

    * Happy until they are found in a ditch at the bottom of the gallop with a leg missing, at any rate.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    It’s anathema to me, not to bet ante-post for the Festival......something which applies equally to most early-closing races (BVGC, Hennessy, KG, Betfair Hurdle etc).
    That's pretty much how I was 'brought up'. Although I was in my mid-teens when my old man chucked it completely (I later was told he came to a 'pact' with God at a time when my mother was unwell and clearly a lot less well than the family were told at the time) ante-post bets in the National, Gold Cup, Hennessy, Scottish National etc were much more topics of discussion between him and my older brothers than football.

    (I suppose the 'pact' can be said to have worked. My mother got another 25 years after that.)
    Last edited by Desert Orchid; 9th January 2019 at 10:07 AM.
    Two's company, three's allowed.

  5. #24
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    My health is not too great so I dont like to bet that much in advance.

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  7. #25
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    Found it hard to know whether to laugh or cry at that Outsider.

    In all seriousness, I'm very sorry to hear it and I hope your health improves very soon.
    Alcohol, because no good story ever started with "I was eating this salad..."

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  9. #26
    Senior Member Euronymous's Avatar
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    Up until maybe three years ago I never fucked with multis aside from doubles but now it's a fundamental part of my betting, particularly at the big festivals.

    I had a yankee come up in 2017 at Royal Ascot just using the main dangers to horses I had in singles and so it got me motivated to try them more. I now include main fancies amongst them and will have a few at Chelt.

  10. #27
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    If I did a NRNB multi, say a 4fold, and one doesn't show, does it become a treble or is the whole bet void?

    Thinking of starting.now, with my main fancy as Supasundae in the stayers. Very bad feeling he ends up in the CH though.

  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double J View Post
    If I did a NRNB multi, say a 4fold, and one doesn't show, does it become a treble or is the whole bet void?
    Pretty sure it becomes a treble. NR rules apply as though the bet was struck on the day of races as far as I understand. If not NRNB any bet including the NR is a loser rather than void.
    Two's company, three's allowed.

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  13. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    Multiples are great for Cheltenham but madness without nrnb.
    I disagree Archie. Yes you have to factor in the risk of injury, but the difference in prices from September to January is huge, particularly with the 'roll-up' factor. Bet365 cash out option is also a useful option that didn't exist previously. This season it has been particularly useful for Samcro antepost bets.

    To demonstrate I've just had some multiples go down recently following the announcement of Next Destination's injury. Whilst it's a pain, it doesn't bother me because I expect some to go down, and I have ample compensation because of the prices I have on others in other multiples. Most people would die for 7/4 multiples including Altior for example. When compared to his current price of 2/5, he alone makes my bets potentially four and half times more profitable than they would be, and when you factor in the roll up of better prices about other hoses included in multiples you can end up with bets that are 20,30,40x etc, better. You could still argue that Altior has to get there of course, but assuming he does I'm sure everyone will have him in as a banker. I take a view that if I end up with anywhere above 20% of my investment in multiples running at the Festival I'm happy. The reality is you only need one multiple running and for it to be a winner to be happy, but 20% is the backstop that suits my mentality. The reality is however that I'd have to be pretty unfortunate to lose more than 80% of my antepost bets to non-runners.

    On the wider point, multiples have been an integral part of my betting strategy for a few years now. I always find them to be a bet that suits a particular kind of thinking though. I have friends who never back multiples and never will. As Viking points out it can be galling to have two winners and not pick up because the third one loses in a treble. The answer to that is simple though. If you feel strongly enough to think they're solid enough for a multiple, surely you can have a good bet on the singles too? The backstop is easy if that's what you need. I'm fine with these bets having a low strike rate though, because when they land there is significant compensation, and I've most likely got them in singles somewhere along the way anyway.

    I've been profitable with my multiples for a number of seasons now. Not least because of the Festival which for me is fertile ground. Inflated prices in what are largely reliable antepost markets is perfect when you can put in anchor horses such as Altior, Buveur D'air, Tiger Roll, etc, at massively inflated prices compared to sp's or nrnb prices.

    For a long time at the Festival I used to back and lay from the moment the first markets were formed, all the way to the day of the race. Coming in and out of individual horses before and after significant trials. It was a profitable strategy, but the bookies made the work harder and harder, and the requirement for the sums invested were getting bigger, and most significantly account restrictions and closures were taking their toll. It's also very time consuming. Whilst I can't say I won't go back to it in the future when I have more time, I struggle to stay all over it like I used to, so the strategy using multiples makes my life much easier

    Like Grassy, these days my antepost investment in Cheltenham is mostly multiples. I usually have a handful of singles with the intention of letting them run, but still may let them go (hopefully for a profit), if I change my mind or if I think differently on the day of the race.

    My advice to those who are considering using multiples as part of their strategy is don't over invest until you learn what you're good at. Think of it this way. Three 4/1 winners in a treble pays 124/1. At 4/1 at the Festival you're probably talking about three horses at the head of the market in what have become very reliable markets in the non-handicaps over the last few year. Ten similar bets perming 5-7 horses from different races has cost you £10 for a potential £125 return from each of the ten bets. If you then spend a further pound and put them all in one acca and get very lucky your £1 will return you £15k at average odds of 4/1, plus a further £1250 from the trebles, making a total potential return of £16250 from an £11 bet.

    Now consider how tough it is to back three winners at any race meeting. Not easy, but it can be much easier to find 3 winners across 4 days of a Festival. But nevertheless it's worth considering the backstop of each way betting. Most people wouldn't consider backing a 4/1 horse each way as a single bet, but as a multiple that's entirely different. A £10 ew bet on a treble at average odds of 4/1 pays £80 and finding three horses to place in the right races at the Festival is not so hard. In my opinion this is the smartest bet of all. This is where I use Archie's principle of not backing ew multiples before no runner no bet though. I couldn't afford too many of these going down before the Festival or it would be a losing bet, so it's not worth the risk. However with nrnb now in play, pretty much all of my multiples between now and the first Tuesday in March will be ew multiples.

    Anyway guys. Expect low strike rates and be patient. If you're any good at finding winners, you're smart when you use it, and don't get too greedy chasing the bookies maximums, you should boost your profits.
    Last edited by Maruco; 10th January 2019 at 10:45 AM.

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  15. #30
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    Major Festival ew lucky 15s my stable diet betting wise.
    Love to find 12/1 plus each way shots with Festival previous, whatever the festival.
    Treble the odds one winner and get another one or two placed and you're saving hay .
    Absolutely loved those days when P Carberry rode in a JP green/red or yellow cap, the magic was never too far away.
    Bellvano still cheers me up no end .

  16. #31
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Between us all, someone will land one at this years festival
    Some people say heís the best since Arkle and thatís certainly true when you look at what heís done

  17. #32
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    I for some unknown reason tend towards 6 selections, 20 ew trebs and an ew accum for small stakes. Every time I place the bet I can see now way all six won't get placed, sometimes three or four do! The closest I came to glory was when Wayward Lad was beaten in Bregawn's GC - I was a student and only able to afford 5P stakes - but still collected £280 which was astronomical for me at the time. If WL had won it would have changed my life back then.
    "And still they gazed and still the wonder grew. That one small head could carry all he knew."

  18. #33
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by an capall View Post
    If WL had won it would have changed my life back then.
    Would it have made you a better person?
    Some people say heís the best since Arkle and thatís certainly true when you look at what heís done

  19. #34
    Senior Member Perpetual's Avatar
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    Almost never do multis with the exception of doubles, where the first leg is usually something I fancy on the day but don’t want to smash into and the 2nd a long term ante post fancy. My last foray into this had The Biter as the 2nd leg for the latest King George . My next one will most likely be Tiger Roll for the X-Country, though his price is starting to be squeezed.

    Having read this thread, I should probably broaden my repertoire...

  20. #35
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    I had a bittersweet Tuesday last year;

    I'd backed: -
    Summerville Boy and Kalashnikov
    Coo Star Sivola, Shantou Flyer and Vintage Clouds
    Rathvinden, Ms Parfois
    Mister Whitaker, Rather Be

    but despite having a very succesfuly day and getting the placepot up (paid about £100 ) I didn't manage to quite get the correct perms and missed out by a huge pay day. I recall posting a photo of the betting receipts on one the threads back then.

    Twice that day I'd gone from elation to despair; the first time when I was asked how much my tricast would pay in the Ultima having been saying all morning how every year I promise myself I'm going to do the tricast and every year letting beer take over and forgetting, only to forget yet again.

    and then again, after the last race, when I realised that it was Ms Parfois in the perm where everything else went in at big prices and not Rathvinden, despite having backed him in a single and others.

    C'est la vie
    Alcohol, because no good story ever started with "I was eating this salad..."

  21. #36
    Senior Member Euronymous's Avatar
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    Last year I mainly had doubles. Not many came up, but I had a nice tickle with Mr Whitaker and Shattered Love and although that was a nice result I should have had another horse or two added to them. There won't be many doubles this year.

  22. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by granger View Post
    Would it have made you a better person?
    Probably not. But it may have dialed down my sh!thead quotient for a week or two.
    "And still they gazed and still the wonder grew. That one small head could carry all he knew."

  23. #38
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Broadly speaking for those who do doubles let's say

    Is there a minimum price that you will back a horse at?
    Some people say heís the best since Arkle and thatís certainly true when you look at what heís done

  24. #39
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    No. I'm happy to take something that I think is rock solid to boost the price on something else.

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