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Thread: The Betfair Chase Haydock Park Sat Nov 24th

  1. #61
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    watched the race again there. Ran like the best horse in the race and to me struggled to get into that proper rhythm over those fences. Amazing he was a length off the leaders turning in. He wasnt knocked about and connections would be dead right to think that he could progress. The KG is the obvious target (and the value in the race IMO). He'll likely run well enough there to ensure he doesn't go to the stayers. But 25/1 with PP isn't the worst interest bet I'd have this year. I do think its his best chance of winning at the festival

  2. #62
    SlimChance
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkWing View Post
    looked as if the fences got in the way. Maybe they were that bit more intimidating than usual.
    Daryll Jacob did mention in his interview being led back in that the fences took proper jumping.

  3. #63
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    Just looked at the KG market. Might Bite is a truly awful price at 7/2.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Kauto Abu's Avatar
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    The Betfair Chase Haydock Park Sat Nov 24th

    The fences do looked to have played a part. I watched the race on ITV and at the start of the race Paisley Park won Henderson could be clearly seen down in the straight examining one of the last fences to be jumped. He was on the phone with a perplexed expression on his face.

    Nico also said it in the immediate aftermath of the race and Haydock themselves have acknowledged as much since saying the fences were bigger than normal and would be reduced. MB seemed to panic over them and got overly big at a number of them.

    He still tho looked to be at a level of fitness well short of what was required. My worry now is heading into next Saturday’s Fighting Fifth is that Buveur D’Air is in a similar situation. If he is he too will be caught out.


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    Last edited by Kauto Abu; 26th November 2018 at 12:30 AM.

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    Yeah, I've convinced myself now that Thistlecrack is outstanding value at 12/1 for the KG. EW viable. Looked like the most talented of that lot on Saturday, not knocked about at all yet was staying on from the last, race likely to cut up to have fewer than 8 runners, ground likely to be similar to this weekend, MB nothing to be frightened of scrambled home last year vs Double Shuffle, no excuse for BDM last year, and Waiting Patiently has it to prove.

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    I really don't buy this panic crap........Nothing but a lame excuse for a horse who simply was not right. When horses are in panic mode they will almost always make unforced errors belt one and lose ground rapidly.

    I saw no evidence on that he jumped really most of the time and never made a one significant error.

    Henderson was bumming his load a bout how fit he was before the race ...........his excuses come across more like prayers to me, in the hope he hasn't shot his bolt.

    I'm told Buvi is only 50/50 for Saturday so you might be worrying unnecessarily
    Formely Fist of Fury

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    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkWing View Post
    watched the race again there. Ran like the best horse in the race and to me struggled to get into that proper rhythm over those fences. Amazing he was a length off the leaders turning in. He wasnt knocked about and connections would be dead right to think that he could progress. The KG is the obvious target (and the value in the race IMO). He'll likely run well enough there to ensure he doesn't go to the stayers. But 25/1 with PP isn't the worst interest bet I'd have this year. I do think its his best chance of winning at the festival
    I agree with most of that but not so sure he's the value of the race. As I see it he's ran a cracker but against that Tizzard's horses are jumping out of their skin in comparison to most.

    As others have pointed out that I am in total agreement with is early form isn't worth the paper it's written on
    Formely Fist of Fury

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanlic View Post
    I really don't buy this panic crap........Nothing but a lame excuse for a horse who simply was not right. When horses are in panic mode they will almost always make unforced errors belt one and lose ground rapidly.

    I saw no evidence on that he jumped really most of the time and never made a one significant error.

    Henderson was bumming his load a bout how fit he was before the race ...........his excuses come across more like prayers to me, in the hope he hasn't shot his bolt.

    I'm told Buvi is only 50/50 for Saturday so you might be worrying unnecessarily
    As Might Bite was concealed by the other two leaders for much of the way it was difficult to see accurately how he was jumping - he certainly seemed singularly less fluent than usual in the back straight both times .

    It was very disappointing - this is a horse that apart from his fall in the Kauto Star/Feltham had not been out of the first two in a chase - for a long time if at all .

  9. #69
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    It's high time they got rid of Tellwrong.

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/late...uild-up/355314

    When I was head of my department (in education) if we knew there was an inspection/verification coming up you made sure you knew what was supposed to be what. You had tome upon tome of 'guidelines' relating to every aspect of the service you should be providing.

    Surely any CoC has all guidelines relating to the size and make up of obstacles. Jesuschrist I've even researched stuff like this myself on the Net.

    So this clown goes and builds the fences too high and too densely packed. The inspector comes in and tells him to reduce it in both aspects, which he does but they end up still too high and too densely packed.

    How incompetent is this guy?

    What on earth must those fences have been like to start with?

    Why not get the top local trainers and/or trainers already there to come in and look at the fences the day before the meeting?
    Last edited by Desert Orchid; 26th November 2018 at 5:47 PM.
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    Didn't seem to inconvenience Bristol De Mai or Native River that much.
    The older I get the better I was.

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    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    Didn't seem to inconvenience Bristol De Mai or Native River that much.
    I'd say perhaps it was more a case of them inconveniencing them less than the others. I didn't think any of them looked comfortable at the fences. Same in the C&D handicap.

    As I said the other day, the ones that negotiated those fences might be worth bearing in mind for Aintree.
    Illegitimi non carborundum


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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    As I said the other day, the ones that negotiated those fences might be worth bearing in mind for Aintree.
    This was my thinking throughout and immediately after the race, particularly in regard to Clan Des Obeaux.

  13. #73
    SlimChance
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkWing View Post
    Yeah, I've convinced myself now that Thistlecrack is outstanding value at 12/1 for the KG. EW viable. Looked like the most talented of that lot on Saturday, not knocked about at all yet was staying on from the last, race likely to cut up to have fewer than 8 runners, ground likely to be similar to this weekend, MB nothing to be frightened of scrambled home last year vs Double Shuffle, no excuse for BDM last year, and Waiting Patiently has it to prove.
    I had to panic this evening to snag the last of the 12/1 with Boyles...

  14. #74
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    MB is a bit of a spoilt brat. He doesn't like it up him
    Last edited by granger; 26th November 2018 at 9:20 PM.
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    It's high time they got rid of Tellwrong.

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/late...uild-up/355314

    When I was head of my department (in education) if we knew there was an inspection/verification coming up you made sure you knew what was supposed to be what. You had tome upon tome of 'guidelines' relating to every aspect of the service you should be providing.

    Surely any CoC has all guidelines relating to the size and make up of obstacles. Jesuschrist I've even researched stuff like this myself on the Net.

    So this clown goes and builds the fences too high and too densely packed. The inspector comes in and tells him to reduce it in both aspects, which he does but they end up still too high and too densely packed.

    How incompetent is this guy?

    What on earth must those fences have been like to start with?

    Why not get the top local trainers and/or trainers already there to come in and look at the fences the day before the meeting?
    I'd agree, chuck in the wrong distances they've done for the same race over the years shows he's a basket case.

  16. #76
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by granger View Post
    MB is a bit of a spoilt brat. He doesn't like it up him
    Clearly bollocks, PJ, when he went toe-to-toe at a relentless gallop with NR, on Heavy ground in the Gold Cup.

    Short memories no use in this game. Clearly, MB was disappointing at Haydock, but it’s patently too soon to be writing him off, or indulging in revisionism like this.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

  17. #77
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    Clearly bollocks, PJ, when he went toe-to-toe at a relentless gallop with NR, on Heavy ground in the Gold Cup.

    Short memories no use in this game. Clearly, MB was disappointing at Haydock, but it’s patently too soon to be writing him off, or indulging in revisionism like this.
    I said at the time and still think it, his GC run and Aintree afterwards will have left a mark on him - he had a few quirks as it was.

    I didn't like his run at the weekend at all, maybe something will come to light but he didn't like it when it got tough on Saturday
    Last edited by granger; 27th November 2018 at 1:44 PM.
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  18. #78
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    All opinions may be expressed, but are not necessarily valid or accurate.

    Don’t think you can say with any degree of confidence that “he didn’t like it” when the going got tough. It was all-over the display of a horse lacking in fitness, imo.

    Time will tell.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 27th November 2018 at 2:31 PM.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

  19. #79
    SlimChance
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    All opinions may be expressed, but are not necessarily valid or accurate.

    Don’t think you can say with any degree of confidence that “he didn’t like it” when the going got tough. It was all-over the display of a horse lacking in fitness, imo.

    Time will tell.
    How fit was he? He's 7/2 for the King George so he would want to have been seriously unfit. Unless Hendo told him to ease up if beat.
    Last edited by SlimChance; 27th November 2018 at 3:29 PM.

  20. #80
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    De Boinville didn’t try a tap after two out, imo.

    The performance clearly wasn’t ideal - disappointing, in fact - and I confess I’m not exactly scattering the furniture to back him for Kempton......but it’s too soon to write him off, and absolutely wrong to describe him as a coward, on the back of the Haydock run.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

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