Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    12,840
    Thanks
    549
    Thanked 739 Times in 535 Posts

    Newmarket at it again

    I see from the advance card for Saturday at Newmarket the CoC is up to his tricks again.

    Over the last few meetings it's been very clear from the TV pictures that they're kicking up a lot of turf, clearly over-watering despite forecast possible rain.

    They're at it again ahead of Saturday. "Good to firm" ground yet the going stick is only reading 7.1 and they're watering. Guess what? Rain is in the forecast.

    Are fast-ground horses not allowed to have their conditions any more?

    I'm for giving up with all this shite.

    I'm going to take this weekend off as I'm supposed to be property hunting in Spain. I'd planned to have whatever kind of look ahead at the Ces meeting I could get while I was away (without taking the form with me - Mrs O wouldn't stand for that) but I'll maybe just go with whatever tracker alerts come through.

    I probably need the holiday.
    Last edited by Desert Orchid; 4th October 2018 at 11:47 AM.
    Two's company, three's allowed.

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Posts
    Many

    To remove these adverts please either login or join if you are not a member.


     

  3. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    6,411
    Thanks
    91
    Thanked 1,298 Times in 701 Posts
    Have been trying to explain this on here for years,this is a regular thing at most meetings the fact is if they had left the ground unwatered then it wouldv'e been perfect griound if they watered as they are doing it rides good, then any sort of rain you get gd/sft which they then tell you is good.There is no doubt about it has got far worse over the last few years,i check on these things everyday about 4/5 times aday and most meetingd with going sticks even under 7.0 will be wartered so you know 2 days in advance whatever happens the giound will not be gd/fm yet all punters are betting and doing form on gd/fm ground,it just never happens.The only time you get gd/fm ground now is when the COC leaves its because of forecast rain or rain hits track couple of days before,strangely the going is always quicker when course recieves it naturally even though artifically water...ed the same levels are put on...

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to gigilo For This Useful Post:

    Desert Orchid (4th October 2018)

  5. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    5,320
    Thanks
    23
    Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts
    I think there ought to be independent going inspectors appointed by the BHA and their description not that of a C of C would be the official one. Then again there is so much blasted racing nowadays they would have to employ loads of them !

  6. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    3,314
    Thanks
    50
    Thanked 176 Times in 145 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    I see from the advance card for Saturday at Newmarket the CoC is up to his tricks again.

    Over the last few meetings it's been very clear from the TV pictures that they're kicking up a lot of turf, clearly over-watering despite forecast possible rain.

    They're at it again ahead of Saturday. "Good to firm" ground yet the going stick is only reading 7.1 and they're watering. Guess what? Rain is in the forecast.

    Are fast-ground horses not allowed to have their conditions any more?

    I'm for giving up with all this shite.

    I'm going to take this weekend off as I'm supposed to be property hunting in Spain. I'd planned to have whatever kind of look ahead at the Ces meeting I could get while I was away (without taking the form with me - Mrs O wouldn't stand for that) but I'll maybe just go with whatever tracker alerts come through.

    I probably need the holiday.
    They last applied water on Wednesday (5m) and the going stick reading (7.1)was taken 7.30am,Thursday.That would fall close to the bottom of the g/f scale and is unlikely to change until the rain arrives at the weekend. Sure enough, they'll frequently be kicking the top off (probably a result of recent water not having permeated), but the g/s doesn't just measure the top of the ground per se.
    Seem to spend much of my time defending the g/s on here, but it's the best, most accurate and independent guide we've got - so until something better comes along - why not make full use of it?

  7. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    3,314
    Thanks
    50
    Thanked 176 Times in 145 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by reet hard View Post
    They last applied water on Wednesday (5m) and the going stick reading (7.1)was taken 7.30am,Thursday.That would fall close to the bottom of the g/f scale and is unlikely to change until the rain arrives at the weekend. Sure enough, they'll frequently be kicking the top off (probably a result of recent water not having permeated), but the g/s doesn't just measure the top of the ground per se.
    Seem to spend much of my time defending the g/s on here, but it's the best, most accurate and independent guide we've got - so until something better comes along - why not make full use of it?
    Just to point out that, though it rained from about noon onwards at Newmarket on Saturday, and they were clearly kicking the top off, RP show the timed ground as:
    g/f 1st race
    good races 2 & 3
    g/s races 4-7.
    Which, again, shows the going stick as more accurate than its knockers allow.

  8. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    12,840
    Thanks
    549
    Thanked 739 Times in 535 Posts
    Thanks for that info, reet. As you say, it's the best we've got. I'm not convinced, though, that horses show their best form when they're kicking the top off the surface.

    Do some courses still vertidrain? Wasn't that the next best thing to sliced bread at one point?
    Two's company, three's allowed.

  9. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    3,314
    Thanks
    50
    Thanked 176 Times in 145 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    Do some courses still vertidrain? Wasn't that the next best thing to sliced bread at one point?
    From memory (which could well be out of date ):
    Cheltenham, York, the straight at Ascot & Doncaster, and (possibly) similar at Haydock & Nottingham.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to reet hard For This Useful Post:

    Desert Orchid (8th October 2018)

  11. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    377
    Thanks
    250
    Thanked 91 Times in 59 Posts
    Looking back at old races I can't see that in the past there was as much kicking up of the turf as there is today. I have the view that artificial watering is a mixed blessing. Of course you have to have it but inappropriate use leads to two things. The first is mentioned by reet and that is the result of recent watering not permeating. The second is that grass does not grow properly and the roots do not reach down into the soil for moisture. Being watered 'too much' means the grass doesn't have to try and just grows abundantly. However it's then easily kicked up in even good conditions. Anyone who has played cricket will know this and that a good wicket is prepared carefully by a good groundsman.

    Turn the taps off and only use watering when there's prelonged non-precipitation. And certainly don't use it within 5 days of racing taking place.

  12. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    12,840
    Thanks
    549
    Thanked 739 Times in 535 Posts
    I don't know enough about the actual process of [artificial] watering but I'd be very surprised if the common practice isn't to apply water only after a certain point in the afternoon or evening when there is maximum chance of permeation through the night.

    It also strikes me that amounts like 5mm of watering is quite a lot.
    Two's company, three's allowed.

  13. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    3,314
    Thanks
    50
    Thanked 176 Times in 145 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleanora Duse View Post
    Looking back at old races I can't see that in the past there was as much kicking up of the turf as there is today. I have the view that artificial watering is a mixed blessing. Of course you have to have it but inappropriate use leads to two things. The first is mentioned by reet and that is the result of recent watering not permeating. The second is that grass does not grow properly and the roots do not reach down into the soil for moisture. Being watered 'too much' means the grass doesn't have to try and just grows abundantly. However it's then easily kicked up in even good conditions. Anyone who has played cricket will know this and that a good wicket is prepared carefully by a good groundsman.

    Turn the taps off and only use watering when there's prelonged non-precipitation. And certainly don't use it within 5 days of racing taking place.
    IIRC, it was Sir Mark Prescott who said that he rarely had to withdraw runners at Bath, because the ground was always safe to run his horses on. He attributed this directly to the course not being artificially watered, producing a sound, even surface no matter how firm it got.
    Know next to nothing about agronomy, but other sports seem to promote grass root growth more efficiently (unsurprising, considering the difference in scale). I well recall when the goal area - even at the better football grounds - was gradually reduced to a grassless desesrt throughout the season. You dont see it now.

  14. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    377
    Thanks
    250
    Thanked 91 Times in 59 Posts
    Was re-reading the Guvnor the other day, the biography of Noel Murless. He said 'I have always been against watering. It makes the ground so false. The grass grows up instead of down to look for moisture'.
    His experience was better than most. My experience comes from a few seasons as a cricket groundsman and also observing the difference between irrigated and un-irrigated vines. With the latter, when it rains the grapes are less affected than are irrigated vines.
    Last edited by Eleanora Duse; 20th October 2018 at 2:36 PM.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Eleanora Duse For This Useful Post:

    edgt (21st October 2018)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •