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Thread: The Road to the 2019 Cheltenham Gold Cup

  1. #481
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by granger View Post
    Think he said Sandown for Altior

    Cyraname makes that fun
    Also could take away a big winning pot for the trainers title
    Last edited by granger; 16th March 2019 at 8:03 PM.
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  2. #482
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-G View Post
    Wonder if he is saying that now 'cos CDO didn't seem to stay, although the ground was horrible? I still think Frodon could have won it this year......................poor race or not.
    Assuming Maruco's 172+ for ABP is correct it will be interesting to see what he has for Frodon. RPRs say ABP improved something like 9lbs on all known form yesterday to 178. They had 175 earlier this season for Frodon yet only 174 on Thursday. I had Frodon some way higher again earlier, hence my bullishness, as I went very, very high (with, I reckoned, strong justification) with his Caspian Caviar win, even allowing for its being a handicap.

    As has been said elsewhere, some of Desert Orchid's and Arkle's highest ratings were earned in handicaps.

    I look forward to another visit down the form mines later in the week.
    Last edited by Desert Orchid; 16th March 2019 at 8:18 PM.
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  4. #483
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    178. Yikes
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  5. #484
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-G View Post
    Wonder if he is saying that now 'cos CDO didn't seem to stay, although the ground was horrible? I still think Frodon could have won it this year......................poor race or not.
    CDO wasn't certain to see it out well enough and so it proved.

    The form of the Cotswold for Frodon was simply nowhere good enough to get involved here. Add in the more extreme test he would have faced, the trainer had a reality check me thinks.
    That said, would be no surprise if they have a crack next season.
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

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    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    The owners of Al Boum Photo introduced a nice looking one with Nicky at Kempton today

    Not a bad 24hours for them
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  7. #486
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankel View Post
    The form of the Cotswold for Frodon was simply nowhere good enough to get involved here.
    Correct.

    But...

    Frodon was on the way back from having been let down following the CC performance. He was well short of peak fitness. Nicholls commented after the race that he felt Frodon looked fatter than he'd planned. He also said Frodon would leave that form behind when fully fit. And that was after it had won.
    Last edited by Desert Orchid; 16th March 2019 at 10:31 PM.
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  8. #487
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    Correct.

    But...

    Frodon was on the way back from having been let down following the CC performance. He was well short of peak fitness. Nicholls commented after the race that he felt Frodon looked fatter than he'd planned. He also said Frodon would leave that form behind when fully fit. And that was after it had won.
    There was the Hobson horse with Frodon turning for home who wouldn't be sighted in a Gold Cup at that stage.
    With that the Tizzard horse was still able to run him down under those fractions. We are not talking a few pounds here he would have to find.

    I like the big man and his faith he has in his horses, as most trainers do. However, faith and reality are very different.
    He thought the trip was no issue for CDO. He thought the Hales horse would have no problem in the KG. Just saying....

    Look, I like Frodon, wears his heart on his sleeve. However, he would have been doing a ruddy good drunken impression had he run in the Gold Cup.

    He is still only 7, so next year you never know.
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

  9. #488
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankel View Post
    There was the Hobson horse with Frodon turning for home who wouldn't be sighted in a Gold Cup at that stage.
    With that the Tizzard horse was still able to run him down under those fractions. We are not talking a few pounds here he would have to find.

    I like the big man and his faith he has in his horses, as most trainers do. However, faith and reality are very different.
    He thought the trip was no issue for CDO. He thought the Hales horse would have no problem in the KG. Just saying....

    Look, I like Frodon, wears his heart on his sleeve. However, he would have been doing a ruddy good drunken impression had he run in the Gold Cup.

    He is still only 7, so next year you never know.
    I agree with every aspect of what you say except the bit I've changed to red.

    I think for him to have run on up the hill when unfit over a trip just half a furlong short of the Gold Cup trip is a strong indicator that he would have been able to do so when bursting with fitness as he was on Thursday. He has the lot: 2.5m pace, fluent jumping, Gold Cup distance stamina and serious attitude, all topped off by ratings that mark him down as genuinely top class. I honestly thought he would have been bombproof in the Gold Cup to anything bar the true Might Bite on good ground.

    I ... thought.

    I could not possibly know as he hadn't yet gone and done it.

    Similarly, you cannot state categorically that he would have ended up in the state you describe. It's your opinion and I support your entitlement to it but you cannot state it as fact any more than I can state as fact that he would have won.

    Let's hope he does go for it next season and proves either opinion to be fact.
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    Well, the dream didn't last long but at least he came back safe and sound. David said that a horse (Percy it seems) took his ground when he was in mid-air and he had nowhere to go. No fault of the horse and maybe you'd question the decision to line up on the inside. He looked very well and, as the race panned out, he must have had every chance of running into a place. Hopefully he can gain compensation at Aintree or Punchestown.
    The older I get the better I was.

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  12. #490
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Plenty of days and pots ahead.

    Punch and France for ABP, so strike when the iron is hot
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  13. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    Well, the dream didn't last long but at least he came back safe and sound. David said that a horse (Percy it seems) took his ground when he was in mid-air and he had nowhere to go. No fault of the horse and maybe you'd question the decision to line up on the inside. He looked very well and, as the race panned out, he must have had every chance of running into a place. Hopefully he can gain compensation at Aintree or Punchestown.
    I hadn't paid much attention over the festival but was gutted when I saw your boy hadn't got chance to strut his stuff as you say plenty of good days ahead. There was one of yours in the Supreme was it ? Aramon ? Ran a race full of promise also. So hopefully he'll add to the better days ahead also.
    Man who catch fly with chopstick .... accomplish anything.

  14. #492
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    I agree with every aspect of what you say except the bit I've changed to red.

    I think for him to have run on up the hill when unfit over a trip just half a furlong short of the Gold Cup trip is a strong indicator that he would have been able to do so when bursting with fitness as he was on Thursday. He has the lot: 2.5m pace, fluent jumping, Gold Cup distance stamina and serious attitude, all topped off by ratings that mark him down as genuinely top class. I honestly thought he would have been bombproof in the Gold Cup to anything bar the true Might Bite on good ground.

    I ... thought.

    I could not possibly know as he hadn't yet gone and done it.

    Similarly, you cannot state categorically that he would have ended up in the state you describe. It's your opinion and I support your entitlement to it but you cannot state it as fact any more than I can state as fact that he would have won.

    Let's hope he does go for it next season and proves either opinion to be fact.
    It's clearly a game of opinions and differing views of which there will be many. What the game is all about.

    As for next season, he is still young so in time he may actually need a trip. Time will tell.
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

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    Presenting Percy unlikely to race again this season
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  16. #494
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankel View Post
    It's clearly a game of opinions and differing views of which there will be many. What the game is all about.

    I agree but think it would help if opinions were expressed as such and not as fact.
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  17. #495
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    I agree but think it would help if opinions were expressed as such and not as fact.
    It's a forum. How you interpret is on you.
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

  18. #496
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Have it your own way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by granger View Post
    Presenting Percy unlikely to race again this season
    From connections, or just law of averages PJ!

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    Senior Member Perpetual's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny View Post
    There was one of yours in the Supreme was it ? Aramon ? Ran a race full of promise also. So hopefully he'll add to the better days ahead also.
    I do not think Archie owns any of Aramon (I'm sure he'll shout up if he does!), but my pals do and he ran a fabulous race on ground that 100% went against him. They would have been super happy with 4th and only missed out on that after getting squeezed out after the last. He has a bright future

  22. #499
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maruco View Post
    From connections, or just law of averages PJ!
    Not from Pat Kelly anyway

    Reynolds said it in a piece picked up by Irishracing
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

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    Owner gave Kevin O'Ryan a good interview at Limerick yesterday.
    The horse is lame and may have some soft tissue damage at back or pelvis area, is due to be examined this week.
    He is hopeful Mall Dini will give a good account of himself at Aintree; he needs only four to come out to get a run.
    "At least we got two runs into him !" was the phrase of the day.
    Nice man Philip, he comes across very humble and loves his racing.

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