View Poll Results: Stay or Leave

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  • Stay

    23 58.97%
  • Leave

    16 41.03%
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Thread: Poll: Brexit - Two Years After

  1. #241
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    [QUOTE=Len Madeiros;710890]Believe me, SP, I have met many older people who think Europe still owes us for the war, and that they should STILL be grateful.

    Yeah, I’ve heard the currency argument is a border argument, but that is not physical infrastructure - it’s entirely different. But I’ve already said that I would reluctantly accept this arrangement for the reasons previously given.

    And check the Labour Party’s 2017 election manifesto. It seeks to “retain the benefits of the single market and customs union”. Quite explicit. No mention of leaving it. They actually say close to but also will respect the result of the referendum. I guess we can both agree that this is like having your cake and isn’t practical.

    That EU army thing is a long way off, and conscription won’t happen. It isn’t that far off they’ve already heavily budgeted for it in the newest EU budget announced last week.

  2. #242
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    Yeah, Labour’s policy is a mess, but increasingly they are making commitments to the CU.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len Madeiros View Post
    Yeah, Labour’s policy is a mess, but increasingly they are making commitments to the CU.
    I’m not sure they know what they’re committing to. One says one things one says another. My problem with all of them is it seems to me that the majority of politicians are just self serving and I truly believe the majority of the British public have had enough. If this continues I genuinely believe they’ll be civil unrest.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by SP Only View Post
    I’m not sure they know what they’re committing to. One says one things one says another. My problem with all of them is it seems to me that the majority of politicians are just self serving and I truly believe the majority of the British public have had enough. If this continues I genuinely believe they’ll be civil unrest.
    I’ll take it back to Cameron. Holding a referendum on such a divisive issue was a massive mistake. All to ensure the Tories wouldn’t be wiped out by UKIP at the 2015 General Election. That seems an age away.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len Madeiros View Post
    I’ll take it back to Cameron. Holding a referendum on such a divisive issue was a massive mistake. All to ensure the Tories wouldn’t be wiped out by UKIP at the 2015 General Election. That seems an age away.
    That was part of the issue but also the EU refusing to budge on anything when Cameron went over there to negotiate immigration targets amongst other things. Which is kind if ironic because as soon as the issue looked like it might topple Merkel earlier this year they soon changed tack. If ever you needed to know who was running the show that was it.

    Talking of the next election the Tories could be wiped out for the next 30 years if they don’t change course on this. I only think labour would survive as they’ve been given a gimme with this deal and to reject it and aren’t in power.

    Which brings me to my final point. This whole episode could end up leading to something much much worse in this country and that’s the rise of the far far right or a Trump type political figure who leads a new party.

  6. #246
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    Well, I think Farage does a reasonable impression of Trump, and he appears to have been seen off. For now. Not sure how it might pan out if we have a second referendum, particularly given that politicians from all sides will look a bit stupid aligning themselves to either a different side they chose in 2016, or the position they have since adopted. Chaos all round.

    If you are part of the single market, you don’t get to negotiate separate EU immigration quotas - that includes Germany. What you might want to do of course is use existing legislation to regulate who is here from the EU, and monitor their access to public benefits. None of which we did.
    Last edited by Len Madeiros; 18th November 2018 at 7:23 PM.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by SP Only View Post
    LMFAO. Democracy is flawed how?
    Democracy is by its very nature flawed. 90% of voters in a democracy are brainless. And the voters usually only amount to about 50% of the populace.

    But unfortunately it's the least bad option available.

    Give me a benevolent despot any time...
    Illegitimi non carborundum


  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    Democracy is by its very nature flawed. 90% of voters in a democracy are brainless. And the voters usually only amount to about 50% of the populace.

    But unfortunately it's the least bad option available.

    Give me a benevolent despot any time...
    So what you’re saying really is it’s a good job we’re in the matrix and this is all
    Just bullshit anyway.

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  10. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marble View Post
    If a generic rule applied that could define every single individual nation state in Europe, (or even a majority), individually as a 'race' e.g "the Bulgarian race' or the 'Dutch race', or the 'Scottish race', then you could argue that British leave voters were being racist, although it still doesn't stand up in a court of law. Unless of course you would like to imply or give criminal records to seventeen million voters who were asked to vote on this referendum in the first place. You tell me how many Nation European states define their own racial identity, (do they actually have one?), as a"race' then you might have a decent argument.

    Unfortunately when The British, (Colonial bastards that we are), decided to walk away from 28 neighbouring countries or whatever it was, to leave the European institution, (ironically leaving behind other European colonialists in the process), including The French, and the infamous world renowned former fascist state Germany, this cannot be deemed as racism by any sane definition of law. I couldn't care less what way this all goes now. Stay, remain, remain, leave or whatever, but you should really stick to Drone's argument about finding a legal way of making the referendum void if you want to win the argument, instead of this racism point. If a British voter in the 21st century cannot look at the impact of mass migration on his or her population, in a 'once in a lifetime vote' without being labelled a racist, then the only case to answer is slander for people calling other people racist.
    Here's your answer mate, it wasn't too hard to find. I thought we should expand your question, in relation to Nation States having racial identities, not just to Europe, but to the entire planet, (which at the last count), had 195 countries in it. https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/questio...9212922AAx5JgV
    Last edited by Marb; 19th November 2018 at 4:33 PM.

  11. #250
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    Edit.
    Last edited by Marb; 19th November 2018 at 7:05 PM.

  12. #251
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    If anyones interested in the peoples vote,then just go to the site and they send a letter/email to your local mp with your permission as though written from you..

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  14. #252
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    Are we missing a trick here. Surely this is a great opportunity to give northern Ireland back to the Irish and remove the issue with our borders.

  15. #253
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    I was wondering if anyone would be brave enough to say it
    Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly. _ Harry Limes

  16. #254
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    Yeah, we can do that. Let’s ask the people of Ulster first if they want to give up their Britishness. I’m all for a united Ireland, btw, but I’m more delighted that the border issue is a massive spanner in the works for Brexit.

  17. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmo View Post
    Are we missing a trick here. Surely this is a great opportunity to give northern Ireland back to the Irish and remove the issue with our borders.
    You can f*** right off!
    "And still they gazed and still the wonder grew. That one small head could carry all he knew.

    And that small head knew that Impaire Et Passe would win the Champion Hurdle."

  18. #256
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    But you'd get the lovely Arlene for free.

    A (voluntary) sponsored swap of Ulster Unionists and Scottish Catholics with Celtic and Hibs moving to Belfast?
    Last edited by archie; 22nd November 2018 at 10:26 AM.
    The older I get the better I was.

  19. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    A (voluntary) sponsored swap of Ulster Unionists and Scottish Catholics with Celtic and Hibs moving to Belfast?
    The SNP would love that.
    Illegitimi non carborundum


  20. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    The SNP would love that.
    I doubt it. The unionists in Scotland scuppered the referendum for them.

  21. #259
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    True. I'd forgotten about that. It leaves the SNP in a difficult position, then, since Catholics in general see them as anti-Catholic and only vote for them if they don't like the other candidates. I don't believe Catholics who voted for independence saw it as a vote for the SNP. I wouldn't mind seeing figures if they're out there but I don't imagine Catholics voted for independence in big numbers.

    Wur dooooooooomed...
    Illegitimi non carborundum


  22. #260
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    We'll somebody is voting for them!

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