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Thread: The Derby

  1. #61
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Greatest flat race in the world???????????you having a laugh?

    When is the last time a Derby winner headed the Global Rankings?

    How many American horses travel to try and win this Greatest horse race or French for that matter?

    There's more horses travel to Australia for the Melbourne Cup than come to the UK for the Derby. We send brigades to the Breeders and the Arc

    The Derby may be important in our little Island but it has been knocked off the top 10 in prize money and it's importance on the world stage grows less by the year.

    The race has produced about 4 Arc winners in 30 years..tells you everything
    Last edited by Tanlic; 10th June 2018 at 4:41 AM.
    Formely Fist of Fury

  2. #62
    Senior Member Euronymous's Avatar
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    The global rankings are absolute ****. And in the last 10 years I would argue New Approach, Sea the Stars and Golden Horn have been the best horses in training anywhere in the world for the year they were 3yos and Derby winners. Pretty good.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    FFS man go find me one website outside of Epsom that says the Derby is in the first 5 of the most prestige's horses races in the world?


    I already said we have only had 4 top ranked horses from the race in 40 years and you have just mentioned 2 of them. As for New Approach he was in and out and wouldn't be in the top 30 of all time.
    Formely Fist of Fury

  4. #64
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    BTW no sense in waiting for DO to respond he doesn't like intelligent debating posters, When he comes up with totally stupid statements which is a regular occurrence with him and you disagree he puts you on IGNORE.

    IGNORE btw should be removed IMO..if you can't handle constructively being disagreed and get over your differences with whoever you should move to a Barbie Doll forum.

    A forum consists of a discussion group where all should be allowed to be heard by all.
    Formely Fist of Fury

  5. #65
    Senior Member Euronymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanlic View Post

    I already said we have only had 4 top ranked horses from the race in 40 years and you have just mentioned 2 of them.
    Troy
    Shergar
    Reference Point
    Nashwan
    Generous
    Galileo

    All in the last 40 years as well as the ones I've already mentioned.

  6. #66
    Senior Member simmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanlic View Post
    BTW no sense in waiting for DO to respond he doesn't like intelligent debating posters, When he comes up with totally stupid statements which is a regular occurrence with him and you disagree he puts you on IGNORE.

    IGNORE btw should be removed IMO..if you can't handle constructively being disagreed and get over your differences with whoever you should move to a Barbie Doll forum.

    A forum consists of a discussion group where all should be allowed to be heard by all.
    and maybe you need to learn how to disagree constructively.......

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    Im not really into the derby and oaks.if aiden o'brien hadnt sent any over then the oaks would have had 4 runners and the derby 7.
    Its a unique track,so theres no point coming from america or australia if you dont handle the track.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmo View Post
    and maybe you need to learn how to disagree constructively.......
    IMO you already have the necessary learning skills to start posting more than one liners.

    It would be quite something to see you graduate to paragraphs

    I wish you luck in all future postings over 10 words
    Formely Fist of Fury

  9. #69
    Senior Member simmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanlic View Post
    IMO you already have the necessary learning skills to start posting more than one liners.

    It would be quite something to see you graduate to paragraphs

    I wish you luck in all future postings over 10 words
    I rest my case.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outsider View Post
    Im not really into the derby and oaks.if aiden o'brien hadnt sent any over then the oaks would have had 4 runners and the derby 7.
    Its a unique track,so theres no point coming from america or australia if you dont handle the track.
    a valid point but without researching it haven't British and Irish trainers sent horses all the way to the USA to race on dirt without any experience of doing so?
    Formely Fist of Fury

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanlic View Post
    a valid point but without researching it haven't British and Irish trainers sent horses all the way to the USA to race on dirt without any experience of doing so?
    Not just that Tanlic most of the tracks I've seen Breeders cups run on are ridiculously sharp running top races around tracks worse than Chester.
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanlic View Post
    Greatest flat race in the world???????????you having a laugh?

    When is the last time a Derby winner headed the Global Rankings?

    How many American horses travel to try and win this Greatest horse race or French for that matter?

    There's more horses travel to Australia for the Melbourne Cup than come to the UK for the Derby. We send brigades to the Breeders and the Arc

    The Derby may be important in our little Island but it has been knocked off the top 10 in prize money and it's importance on the world stage grows less by the year.

    The race has produced about 4 Arc winners in 30 years..tells you everything
    Americans don't come for our Derby as the trip is seen as a complete non entity over there really. Americans don't do stayers, period ! 1m4f is a marathon trip to them. All they talk about after the Belmont is stamina. We'd sometimes use the expression of not quick enough for the Derby, or he's a Leger horse or he'll make a top class stayer.

    Have you ever heard a yank say a horse doesn't have the speed for the Belmont ?

    10f is more in fashion over recent years I've often thought if we could find a horse to do the Triple crown over here and go on to do well at Stud that might change things a little.

    I also think Global ratings are a bit of a farce without going into too many other things how many horses that have topped that list have run on Lasix at some point or another.

    More horses travelling to the Melbourne Cup somewhere in the midst of a foggy mind I believe thats something the Aussies do with regards the package they put together for people to travel over regarding cost, I may be wrong but I'm sure I recall a trainer mentioning how they made it affordable for him and he couldn't really travel horses anywhere else as it wasn't worthwhile.

    4 Arc winners in 30 years might not be as bad as it sounds statistically but I have't really looked into the stat myself.
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    I'm fairly sure that no expenses are paid for Melbourne Cup entries, Danny. I think it's still the case that invitations are issued to overseas horses for the Cox Plate which includes travel expenses for horse and connections but going for the Melbourne Cup will cost a minimum of £10k just to transport the horse so you'd be talking at least twice that all in.

    I don't think that you can get a proper handle on a horse's ability until it has won races that are not restricted by age or gender.
    The older I get the better I was.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to archie For This Useful Post:

    Danny (10th June 2018)

  15. #74
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmo View Post
    and maybe you need to learn how to disagree constructively.......
    I reckon occasions when I've been presented with constructive criticism and/or research-backed debate and shied away are very few and far between.

    As far as I know, the only people I have on ignore are people who have resorted to abuse in the absence of the foregoing.
    Illegitimi non carborundum


  16. #75
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    I don't think that you can get a proper handle on a horse's ability until it has won races that are not restricted by age or gender.
    It's a logical argument but I don't necessarily agree.

    Thanks to ratings, once you get a 3yo hitting 130 and the ongoing form backing the rating up, as opposed to casting doubt on it, then you can be pretty sure you have a pretty solid idea of how it might fare once it takes on older horses. If they come up against a 135 older horse they'll probably be beaten. If they take on 125-rated older horses they'll probably win.

    At this stage of the season, though, I accept it's more tenuous.
    Illegitimi non carborundum


  17. #76
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    Good job we have the wokingham and Royal hunt cup to look forward to.

  18. #77
    Senior Member G-G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny View Post
    Americans don't come for our Derby as the trip is seen as a complete non entity over there really. Americans don't do stayers, period ! 1m4f is a marathon trip to them. All they talk about after the Belmont is stamina. We'd sometimes use the expression of not quick enough for the Derby, or he's a Leger horse or he'll make a top class stayer.

    .
    Exactly. Plus it's smack back in the middle of their flat season as well.

  19. #78
    Senior Member G-G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmo View Post
    and maybe you need to learn how to disagree constructively.......
    He said he was the lord on 30th March and to shut one mouth's if one didn't agree with him so why would he post anything in a constructive manner?

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    Don't forget the Melbourne Cup is a handicap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    I'm fairly sure that no expenses are paid for Melbourne Cup entries, Danny. I think it's still the case that invitations are issued to overseas horses for the Cox Plate which includes travel expenses for horse and connections but going for the Melbourne Cup will cost a minimum of £10k just to transport the horse so you'd be talking at least twice that all in.

    .
    I thought that was the case but my memory is so bad I don't really like to go out on a limb on something I think I remembered someone say. Cheers for that Archie.
    Man who catch fly with chopstick .... accomplish anything.

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