Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 83

Thread: The Derby

  1. #41
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    12,865
    Thanks
    554
    Thanked 746 Times in 540 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    So I'll say more later today probably but in the meantime how do people rate this year's race as a whole or the individual runners? I think we saw a good winner of an average race but whether the numbers will confirm that we'll see.
    I'm thinking maybe it was just an ordinary race after all, just as I'd said after the Guineas - although that only occurred to me as I write so it wasn't something that was in my mind as I worked.

    Friday's times point to slow ground, which we all knew it was, but I have a minus going allowance for the Saturday, indicating good going.

    I have Masar only 12lbs faster than the winner of the 10f handicap Connect (new OR 105) and 15lbs faster than the C&D winner Dash Of Spice, who appears to have got a soft lead, won despite bursting a blood vessel and who has gone up to 98.

    I shudder to think what Cracksman might do to him should they meet later in the season.
    Two's company, three's allowed.

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Posts
    Many

    To remove these adverts please either login or join if you are not a member.


     

  3. #42
    Senior Member G-G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Not got much to lose.
    Posts
    1,620
    Thanks
    106
    Thanked 57 Times in 38 Posts
    An afterthought, only 12 declared? Are other trainers/owners being put off when they see so many from one stable in there and seemingly a pace maker put it, and although no horse appeared to be used as a pacemaker, could there have been the thought of that? I can sort of understand why people don't enter when they look at either things like that, or there's a red hot favourite in there, but if you're not in it, you can't win it, and in my humble opinion , people should go for it and not be put off. Anything can happen on the day.

  4. #43
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Liverpool
    Posts
    2,657
    Thanks
    171
    Thanked 105 Times in 83 Posts
    The race lost a lot of it`s popular appeal when it was moved from Wednesday to Saturday. The average betting shop punter regards it as not much more than another race. And with half the field running for one stable the disenchantment grows!

  5. #44
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    12,865
    Thanks
    554
    Thanked 746 Times in 540 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Desperate Dan View Post
    The race lost a lot of it`s popular appeal when it was moved from Wednesday to Saturday.
    Not for me. I welcomed the change and much prefer the race on a Saturday. I could rarely get to see the race when it was midweek due to work. I don't know if it was a local holiday but I don't see how so many could get to the track without taking time off work. Now that I'm long since retired I still have no desire to see it revert to a Wednesday.


    Quote Originally Posted by Desperate Dan View Post
    The average betting shop punter regards it as not much more than another race.
    I think that's pretty much the case with every big race nowadays, bar maybe the Grand National. The nature of the betting shop punter has changed, I reckon, although maybe I'm not the best person to judge as I seldom go into a shop. However, on the few recent occasions I've been in, they've been sparsely populated with maybe one guy watching virtual racing, one playing a puggy and me getting a free read at the RP. Gone, it seems, are the days of two or three punters standing together discussing the respective chances of runners in races.

    Quote Originally Posted by Desperate Dan View Post
    And with half the field running for one stable the disenchantment grows!
    Is it disenchantment, though? Does it put people off if Elliott has eight in one NH race? Or Nicholls/Henderson with multiple entries in big races? This year's smallish field might be no more than a blip.
    Two's company, three's allowed.

  6. #45
    Senior Member G-G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Not got much to lose.
    Posts
    1,620
    Thanks
    106
    Thanked 57 Times in 38 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post

    Is it disenchantment, though? Does it put people off if Elliott has eight in one NH race? Or Nicholls/Henderson with multiple entries in big races? This year's smallish field might be no more than a blip.
    I think it does....definitely seems to be a lack of runners from other stables when one trainer does this, and again from a personal point of view, it really doesn't help the sport. I appreciate they have big yards, but as on Saturday, at least two of those horses were not good enough to be in the race. I saw 5 runners from one yard in the decs, and thought it was just overkill. The commentators, who all day went on about nothing else other than SW, actually said certain horses would be used to keep other horses out of the race ( not verbatim) .
    Last edited by G-G; 7th June 2018 at 7:05 PM.

  7. #46
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    North Cork. Home of steeple chasing
    Posts
    3,727
    Thanks
    1,066
    Thanked 472 Times in 316 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    All the more reason to celebrate a Derby winner from other than Ballydoyle.
    It can be done if you have the goods.
    For me the first five horses are all decent and once the race has not taken its toll they will represent their crop well through the year.

  8. #47
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    The Shire
    Posts
    3,143
    Thanks
    136
    Thanked 277 Times in 198 Posts
    When O'Brien runs four or five, it significantly reduces the chances of the smaller trainer picking up some good prizemoney, and if they run anyway the handicapper takes a dim view and over-penalises a horse because its trainer thinks its a good idea to run in a Derby. It's an absolute no win for the smaller stables.

    If my trainer suggested my three year old run in those circumstance I'd be questioning why. Bear in mind I've paid out tens of thousands for the horse and I'm paying him the thick end of two and half thousand a month for him to train and place it to best advantage. Running in the Derby in those circumstances should be well down the agenda of races under consideration.

    On the other hand if he convinced me my horse was going there with a real chance I wouldn't stop pinching myself and then I'd be the first through Epsom's gates on Saturday morning.
    Last edited by Maruco; 8th June 2018 at 7:36 AM.

  9. #48
    Senior Member simmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Riding Beelzebub's back into Hell
    Posts
    4,323
    Thanks
    117
    Thanked 113 Times in 98 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by G-G View Post
    An afterthought, only 12 declared? Are other trainers/owners being put off when they see so many from one stable in there and seemingly a pace maker put it, and although no horse appeared to be used as a pacemaker, could there have been the thought of that? I can sort of understand why people don't enter when they look at either things like that, or there's a red hot favourite in there, but if you're not in it, you can't win it, and in my humble opinion , people should go for it and not be put off. Anything can happen on the day.
    What horses do we think should have been there that weren't?
    Alba Gu Brath!

  10. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    12,865
    Thanks
    554
    Thanked 746 Times in 540 Posts
    Probably none of the serious ones. I suppose one or two genuinely promising ones might not have made it due to injury or backwardness at this stage but that's about it. There didn't seem to be any social runners this year, as I said before, although mine ran like one...
    Two's company, three's allowed.

  11. #50
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    4,306
    Thanks
    145
    Thanked 185 Times in 135 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by G-G View Post
    An afterthought, only 12 declared? Are other trainers/owners being put off when they see so many from one stable in there and seemingly a pace maker put it, and although no horse appeared to be used as a pacemaker, could there have been the thought of that? I can sort of understand why people don't enter when they look at either things like that, or there's a red hot favourite in there, but if you're not in it, you can't win it, and in my humble opinion , people should go for it and not be put off. Anything can happen on the day.
    Alternatively; it could be that it is just a sh!te year for middle distance 3YOs?
    "And still they gazed and still the wonder grew. That one small head could carry all he knew."

  12. #51
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    12,865
    Thanks
    554
    Thanked 746 Times in 540 Posts
    Yes, maybe the worst since Oath's. On my figures anyway.
    Two's company, three's allowed.

  13. #52
    Senior Member simmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Riding Beelzebub's back into Hell
    Posts
    4,323
    Thanks
    117
    Thanked 113 Times in 98 Posts
    Yeah, I couldn't really think of anything that should have been there that wasn't.

    Chances of Saxon Warrior reversing the form in the Irish Derby (assuming Masar goes). I'd be driven by the prices on that one - chances are Saxon Warrior could even be favourite for a repeat meeting, in which case I'd side with Masar. SW at a price (I'm thinking at least 7/1) would be interesting.
    Alba Gu Brath!

  14. #53
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    4,306
    Thanks
    145
    Thanked 185 Times in 135 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by simmo View Post
    (I'm thinking at least 7/1) would be interesting.
    Step away from the spliff. Right now.
    "And still they gazed and still the wonder grew. That one small head could carry all he knew."

  15. #54
    Senior Member simmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Riding Beelzebub's back into Hell
    Posts
    4,323
    Thanks
    117
    Thanked 113 Times in 98 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by an capall View Post
    Step away from the spliff. Right now.
    Well Masar was 16/1 for a 1.5l beating........

    Not saying that it's likely to happen but that's the sort of price I'd want before I started thinking about form reversal.
    Alba Gu Brath!

  16. #55
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    12,865
    Thanks
    554
    Thanked 746 Times in 540 Posts
    I thought it was currently 6/4 SW, 7/4 M for the Irish Derby?
    Two's company, three's allowed.

  17. #56
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    377
    Thanks
    250
    Thanked 91 Times in 59 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by edgt View Post
    All the more reason to celebrate a Derby winner from other than Ballydoyle.
    It can be done if you have the goods.
    For me the first five horses are all decent and once the race has not taken its toll they will represent their crop well through the year.
    I think that is right. As regards the winner we are talking about a horse who was 3rd in the guineas and won a Derby. Roaring Lion and Hazarpour look 10f horses now. I was counting my winnings as Hazarpour came round the corner but he went out like a light. The way Dettori rode him he seemed to think he was going to win. They'll both be back. I think SW is a conundrum. Is he a stayer as AOB obviously thought or is he actually a miler.

    I'm interested to see Young Rascal run next time. If there was a horse not suited by the course it was him.

    The 6th horse for the Leger?

  18. #57
    Senior Member G-G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Not got much to lose.
    Posts
    1,620
    Thanks
    106
    Thanked 57 Times in 38 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by simmo View Post
    What horses do we think should have been there that weren't?
    I dont follow flat racing as much as I used to so cant give you names but of all the 3 year olds in training, only 12 turn up on reasonable ground to take their chance? Some big name trainers/ owmers without an entry who one might expect to have at least one contender.
    Last edited by G-G; 9th June 2018 at 12:31 AM.

  19. #58
    Senior Member G-G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Not got much to lose.
    Posts
    1,620
    Thanks
    106
    Thanked 57 Times in 38 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by an capall View Post
    Alternatively; it could be that it is just a sh!te year for middle distance 3YOs?
    So put in a shite horse then with a chance of being a Derby winner.

  20. #59
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    898
    Thanks
    313
    Thanked 249 Times in 161 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by simmo View Post
    What horses do we think should have been there that weren't?
    Ghaiyyath.

    Missed it due to a setback.
    Man who catch fly with chopstick .... accomplish anything.

  21. #60
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    898
    Thanks
    313
    Thanked 249 Times in 161 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    It seems the Derby offers a barometer of the atmosphere on the forum.

    Only two pages to an entire thread on 'the world's greatest flat race' and only half-a-dozen post-race comments.

    .
    Triple crown winner across the pond hasn't got a mention either

    Haven't been doing much in the way of form study myself for a while just can't seem to get into it at the moment. I've got a long weekend away at the end of June and I'm sort of planning on getting back to work after that so hopefully I can stick my two penneth in for the remainder of the Flat season. My take on the Derby was that Saxon Warrior didn't handle the track, the end. That not pocket talk because I hadn't backed him I was waiting on DXB for a chunk.
    Last edited by Danny; 10th June 2018 at 2:13 AM.
    Man who catch fly with chopstick .... accomplish anything.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •