I'm confused, Reet.
It looks to me like you're implying I said that truly run races contain a 'fastest final furlong' more often than rarely?
It isn't something I recall saying or even suggesting.
I'm confused, Reet.
It looks to me like you're implying I said that truly run races contain a 'fastest final furlong' more often than rarely?
It isn't something I recall saying or even suggesting.
Illegitimi non carborundum
Apologies, DO - that was not my intention.
The 'search' facilty on this forum remains a complete mystery to me, and I'm unable to elicit any response, at all, from it on the few occasions I persevere with a query.
I was alluding to a recent post of yours where you touched on viewing how horses finished in their races, though (with my usual ineptiude) I am unable to find it.
Could it have been when I mentioned that I used to watch VT recordings on FF to get a better idea of how races were panning out and which horses were finishing faster or slower than others?
Or mentioning Kelly Holmes's olympic races?
I do recall those discussions but it was to support the idea of horses not going faster at the end of a race.
This?
Last edited by Desert Orchid; 2nd May 2018 at 9:02 AM.
Illegitimi non carborundum
Cheer, DO; that's the one - specifically the reference to Kelly Holme's even fractions. Don't know much about athletics, but - had that been a truly run race - she would surely have been slowing in the final stages?
Actually, that's an angle I hadn't considered. Would it not be possible to argue though that it was a true-run race in the sense that the others did slow (as a result of being involved in a true-run race) and it was her tactical nous that saw her time her race better?
I do suspect, on the other hand, that maybe in athletics it might be the 100% finish, to use sectional terms, that denotes the true-run race. Like you, I don't know much about athletics but I do like listening to the expert analysis from people like Michael Johnson and Colin Jackson.
Last edited by Desert Orchid; 2nd May 2018 at 10:47 AM.
Illegitimi non carborundum
Warbler has some interesting thoughts and views on this subject. Perhaps he could come out of horse racing forum retirement to share his views. They are very much worth hearing. I'll drop him a quick PM.
I reckon he will conclude that Putin holds his form and that Trump runs in snatches.
"And still they gazed and still the wonder grew. That one small head could carry all he knew.
And that small head knew that Impaire Et Passe would win the Champion Hurdle."
Very good Colm
Well that's strange because when I remarked he was far from special you appeared to dispute that plus you have him as more exciting than the most impressive filly in years who is a quadruple Oaks/King George and Arc winner.
You're supposed to read the form book not smoke it
Formely Fist of Fury
Yes mate I'm aware that Sensei now hides amongst your political section. I dare say attempting to educate fools such as I, contributed to his early retirement or at least sent him into sabbatical with a few less hairs on his head
Last edited by Danny; 3rd May 2018 at 11:58 AM.
Man who catch fly with chopstick .... accomplish anything.
I have a feeling your Sensei may temporarily come out of retirement on this subject. It's one he and I started discussing 15 years or more ago.
I might get round to giving it some thought later (then again, I might not as horse racing is kak - sorry to break it to you!)
Basically you need differentiate between 'speed' and 'acceleration'. The two things are different. Understanding how horses deploy either to win a race, and what type of race too, holds a key of sorts. A couple who come to mind were George Washington and Ouija Board. Both had similar top speeds to the contemporaries once they were in full flow, but both had a devastating burst that could open up advantage they could then defend. Where these horses can occasionally come unstuck of course is if they're required to accelerate twice in the same race
It's a rare horse that can accelerate off a strong pace. Those that can are the very, very best, or otherwise called Mr Frankel
The other key thing is to understand the relationship between stamina and speed. Outside of sprint distances, where you're on anerobic running, stamina (aerobic) is the very expression of speed. That is to say the horse that can sustain its top speed for longest (the last one to begin slowing down) which is stamina in any other name.
Contrary to what a lot of people think, stamina is not necessarily an expression of distance. If you want to use the athletics equivalent, then look no further than 400m and 10,000m runners. In the 400m, the winner will often crash through the line, fall to the track, and be violently gulping in oxygen. The 10,000 metre winner can probably give you an interview. The reason is because the 400m runner is out of stamina for having had to sustain a punishing speed to the point where they're running on empty.
A lot of horses have a remarkably similar top-speed in their class. Horses do have a ceiling above which they can't go. What sets them apart is the duration for which they can sustain that top speed, and the amount of time it takes them to reach that top speed (that's the parable of Ulshaw for you Paul)
Horses like humans are fuelled by oxygen and their ability to process it into the blood stream and get it circulated. All horses have a cubic capacity therefore over which they can't go (unless you believe Hollywood westerns!)
Last edited by Warbler; 3rd May 2018 at 9:19 PM.
Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly. _ Harry Limes
Marb (3rd May 2018)
Indeed! It's still the sport of kings. Admittedly financed by murky capitalist dictators, regulated by rogues and gambled on by oily chancers, but still the sport of kings. Prefer it to the next football match anyday! Although snooker is growing on me.
Last edited by Marb; 3rd May 2018 at 7:10 PM.
Watching snooker is a better cure for insomnia than most.
Ah! but a man's reach should exceed his grasp......
Something we never explored in the past, but Simon Rowlands is working on stride length and frequency at the moment, which is a really interesting angle. Take a look as his recent article Alun and let me know what you think because I think this built in with some of your previous work gets very interesting.
http://www.attheraces.com/blogs/sect.../12-April-2018
I think this is an angle you could consider exploring. I'm not suggesting for one second you can have another dive into horse racing, particularly the way you once did, but with the classics round the corner I thought this might be a piece of work that might capture your interest on the basis that it's the analytics that float your boat.
Reet me old mucker why are you trying to stir the shitt pot. First of all nobody compared Cracksman to Frankel.
Second of all if you really want to use sarcasm to its highest degree you should be comparing every horse to the greatest race horse of the last 50 years, Secretariat, not Frankel.
I think we might actually agree on Mendelsohn shudder the thought but for different reasons. We are going to find out tomorrow what that Dubai win was worth. My book says he won't be placed. If he is I won't be winning on any exotics
ROLL ON THE RESISTANCE !!!