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Thread: Is Donald Trump mad?

  1. #61
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    He listens to Kushner and Pence who have their grubby little mitts all over this latest provocation. One is set for a big fall and one is likely to be the next president.
    The older I get the better I was.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-G View Post
    Does he listen to his advisors or are they as bad as him? If they are, there's no hope.
    He was asked about his advisers, particularly as it happens, in the field of Foreign policy. This is his reply (March 16th 2016)

    “I’m speaking with myself, number one, because I have a very good brain and I’ve said a lot of things. I know what I’m doing and I listen to a lot of people, I talk to a lot of people and at the appropriate time I’ll tell you who the people are. But my primary consultant is myself and I have a good instinct for this stuff."
    Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly. _ Harry Limes

  3. #63
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    The mind boggles - he’s the President!!!
    Ah! but a man's reach should exceed his grasp......

  4. #64
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    I'm not convinced America voted for Trump. I reckon they voted against the status quo. They'd have voted for me if I'd stood.

    I base this on a conversation with an American couple in the run-up to the election. At a time when the rest of the world was laughing at the idea of his becoming president these two were almost in tears at the confusion in the USA.

    The guy was a retired chief engineer of a major power company in Texas. The woman (his wife) was a Latina immigrant and retired professor from a Texan university (don't recall its name). They were quiet, unassuming, polite and mannerly. We saw them at Mass nearly every time we went ourselves and when we stopped en route (we were on a tour of Italy) their first stop was almost invariably the nearest church.

    However, once we expressed surprise at the idea of Trump not being dismissed out of hand as a candidate we couldn't get them to shut the fvck up. Everything that was wrong with America was the fault of failing successive administrations and they wanted change.

    Trump's rhetoric - so laughably empty to us - captured their imagination. They had fallen for the rhetoric (rather than the man) hook, line and sinker. They didn't even detect a whiff of irony in their anti-immigration stance.

    The parallels with the Brexit campaign in the lead-up to the referendum here were striking.

    Trump was very accurately described one night on Question Time. I can't recall the exact litany of adjectives and nouns and can't find the edition on Youtube but the words sociopath, narcissist, misogynist and deluded may have been used.

    A number of my American 'cousins' (lots of them are second/third cousins x-tmes removed etc but still 'cousins' to us) are in contact with us via FB and they are split down the middle. Those traditionally Democrat in their persuasion hate Trump, those of a Republican persuasion are backing him although they do seem to have some reservations.
    Last edited by Desert Orchid; 8th December 2017 at 8:08 AM.
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  6. #65
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    I'm not convinced America voted for Trump either - I'm convinced they voted against HRC. She is almost universally-despised over there - even amongst a large part of the Democratic caucus

    You could have put Satan up against her, and they would have bet 10/11 the pair.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 8th December 2017 at 10:28 AM.
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    SlimChance, March 2018

  7. #66
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    All countries have a rabid element in their electorate

    In the UK it tends to run between 6% and 12%

    In continental Europe it runs between 10% and 20%

    In America it runs between 20% and 33%

    America has a particularly deep seam of nasty opinion. Hillary Clinton wasn't far wrong when she described half of Trump's natural support as "deplorable" (although she should never have said it)

    If I had to point to any single factor that's driven this, then its the wave of never recovered (from the credit crunch). It's not as if history hasn't shown us this before. In the wake of a massive economic slump people don't automatically turn extreme, but if after about 7-8 years they haven't recovered their status then they become a lot more receptive to this type of messaging. They begin to resent data led recoveries, and being told by remote politicians that everything is back to where it was, when their own experiences are frankly contradicting this. It begins to manifest itself as a vote that I would describe as; this ain't working for me any longer, may as well try it, what's the worse that can happen? Which I think accounts for a fair amount of Brexit antipathy

    America has a couple of other issues that make them particularly vulnerable

    In the first case they allow the poison of religion into the politics much more so than any other western country, and it tends to be a quite radical interpretation too. Ironically it was something Jimmy Carter first plugged into, but the Republicans have taken it to new levels

    I think what's probably more relevant however is the breakdown in the relationship with the media post Iraq, which has coincided with the emergence of new social platforms. American news doesn't report. Instead it campaigns. It's perfectly possible now to take your news in an echo chamber of bias confirmation. Fox are appalling, but it also needs to be acknowledged that CNN and MSNBC are equally partisan, they just tend to produce more thoughtful content, even if the likes of Rachael Maddow would never be allowed to get away with the stuff she pumps out in the UK. Then of course you have this whole wodge of right wing websites like Brietbart, or Info Wars, plus their local radio is truly shocking

    Perhaps the final piece in the jigsaw is their education system. Americans do actually make me laugh when they brag about their world class universities. Just ask how many of them went to one? The fault line is in the strata below. America is outside of the top-20 in all three of the PISA categories. In fact she was outside of the top-40 in maths. America spends 2% of her federal budget on education, and 7% on interest repayment (some education is picked up at state level of course). There seems to have been an insidious invasion however that has begun to celebrate ignorance in American culture

    "War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength;"
    Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly. _ Harry Limes

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warbler View Post
    All countries have a rabid element in their electorate

    In the UK it tends to run between 6% and 12%

    In continental Europe it runs between 10% and 20%

    In America it runs between 20% and 33%

    America has a particularly deep seam of nasty opinion. Hillary Clinton wasn't far wrong when she described half of Trump's natural support as "deplorable" (although she should never have said it)

    If I had to point to any single factor that's driven this, then its the wave of never recovered (from the credit crunch). It's not as if history hasn't shown us this before. In the wake of a massive economic slump people don't automatically turn extreme, but if after about 7-8 years they haven't recovered their status then they become a lot more receptive to this type of messaging. They begin to resent data led recoveries, and being told by remote politicians that everything is back to where it was, when their own experiences are frankly contradicting this. It begins to manifest itself as a vote that I would describe as; this ain't working for me any longer, may as well try it, what's the worse that can happen? Which I think accounts for a fair amount of Brexit antipathy

    America has a couple of other issues that make them particularly vulnerable

    In the first case they allow the poison of religion into the politics much more so than any other western country, and it tends to be a quite radical interpretation too. Ironically it was something Jimmy Carter first plugged into, but the Republicans have taken it to new levels

    I think what's probably more relevant however is the breakdown in the relationship with the media post Iraq, which has coincided with the emergence of new social platforms. American news doesn't report. Instead it campaigns. It's perfectly possible now to take your news in an echo chamber of bias confirmation. Fox are appalling, but it also needs to be acknowledged that CNN and MSNBC are equally partisan, they just tend to produce more thoughtful content, even if the likes of Rachael Maddow would never be allowed to get away with the stuff she pumps out in the UK. Then of course you have this whole wodge of right wing websites like Brietbart, or Info Wars, plus their local radio is truly shocking

    Perhaps the final piece in the jigsaw is their education system. Americans do actually make me laugh when they brag about their world class universities. Just ask how many of them went to one? The fault line is in the strata below. America is outside of the top-20 in all three of the PISA categories. In fact she was outside of the top-40 in maths. America spends 2% of her federal budget on education, and 7% on interest repayment (some education is picked up at state level of course). There seems to have been an insidious invasion however that has begun to celebrate ignorance in American culture

    "War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength;"
    I could pretty much sign off on this although I'd probably rate the poison/hypocrisy of religion in politics higher than the relationship with the media.
    All these holy rollers that voted for Trump and quite possibly putting a pedophile in the Senate just want to make me vomit.
    My already high disdain for organized religions has never been higher than at this present time.
    In retrospect Hillary was the worst possible candidate imaginable for the dems.
    ROLL ON THE RESISTANCE !!!

  9. #68
    SlimChance
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warbler View Post
    All countries have a rabid element in their electorate

    In the UK it tends to run between 6% and 12%

    In continental Europe it runs between 10% and 20%

    In America it runs between 20% and 33%

    America has a particularly deep seam of nasty opinion. Hillary Clinton wasn't far wrong when she described half of Trump's natural support as "deplorable" (although she should never have said it)

    If I had to point to any single factor that's driven this, then its the wave of never recovered (from the credit crunch). It's not as if history hasn't shown us this before. In the wake of a massive economic slump people don't automatically turn extreme, but if after about 7-8 years they haven't recovered their status then they become a lot more receptive to this type of messaging. They begin to resent data led recoveries, and being told by remote politicians that everything is back to where it was, when their own experiences are frankly contradicting this. It begins to manifest itself as a vote that I would describe as; this ain't working for me any longer, may as well try it, what's the worse that can happen? Which I think accounts for a fair amount of Brexit antipathy

    America has a couple of other issues that make them particularly vulnerable

    In the first case they allow the poison of religion into the politics much more so than any other western country, and it tends to be a quite radical interpretation too. Ironically it was something Jimmy Carter first plugged into, but the Republicans have taken it to new levels

    I think what's probably more relevant however is the breakdown in the relationship with the media post Iraq, which has coincided with the emergence of new social platforms. American news doesn't report. Instead it campaigns. It's perfectly possible now to take your news in an echo chamber of bias confirmation. Fox are appalling, but it also needs to be acknowledged that CNN and MSNBC are equally partisan, they just tend to produce more thoughtful content, even if the likes of Rachael Maddow would never be allowed to get away with the stuff she pumps out in the UK. Then of course you have this whole wodge of right wing websites like Brietbart, or Info Wars, plus their local radio is truly shocking

    Perhaps the final piece in the jigsaw is their education system. Americans do actually make me laugh when they brag about their world class universities. Just ask how many of them went to one? The fault line is in the strata below. America is outside of the top-20 in all three of the PISA categories. In fact she was outside of the top-40 in maths. America spends 2% of her federal budget on education, and 7% on interest repayment (some education is picked up at state level of course). There seems to have been an insidious invasion however that has begun to celebrate ignorance in American culture

    "War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength;"
    The universities are overrun by professors that are against free speech and have extreme left wing ideologies. They are teaching students to be victims, not men and women that think for themselves.

  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlimChance View Post
    The universities are overrun by professors that are against free speech and have extreme left wing ideologies. They are teaching students to be victims, not men and women that think for themselves.
    Possibly...but I accept what someone (somewhere) said on this issue, along the lines of, 'we do have a left bias in teaching to young people, but that's because the actual capitalist-world they're about to enter is right-wing, or neo-liberal, etc'.

    Who can argue with that?
    Last edited by Marb; 8th December 2017 at 1:48 PM.

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marble View Post
    Possibly...but I accept what someone (somewhere) said on this issue, along the lines of, 'we do have a left bias in teaching to young people, but that's because the actual capitalist-world they're about to enter is right-wing, or neo-liberal, etc'.

    Who can argue with that?
    They're teaching people in elite colleges to be victims. There is a hell of a lot wrong with that.

  12. #71
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    This Ed Krassenstein is relentless. Roll protest movement
    Charles Blow must be proud.
    ROLL ON THE RESISTANCE !!!

  13. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by brendanr View Post
    This Ed Krassenstein is relentless. Roll protest movement
    Charles Blow must be proud.
    He's easily the most pathetic ******* on the internet. He really should go outside and see the world is still the world no matter who is president.
    Last edited by SlimChance; 8th December 2017 at 9:29 PM.

  14. #73
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    Something else to look out for from the left. Anytime Trump tweets about the economy you get the hilarious "Thanks Obama" replies. This is a mistake by Trump. As soon as the economy implodes, which is highly likely if he gets reelected then all of a sudden the economy will be his fault. He should stick to his draining the swanp mantra because once the economy blows all the "Thanks Obama" tweets will quietly be deleted.

  15. #74
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marble View Post
    'we do have a left bias in teaching to young people, but that's because the actual capitalist-world they're about to enter is right-wing, or neo-liberal, etc'.
    Evidence?
    Illegitimi non carborundum


  16. #75
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    I think the universities being left-wing training children to be victims is one of the most boring tropes of the right-wing commentators. The Ben Shapiro, Milo, Breitbart alt-right clan. There are some universities where it has become an issue where some students have protested against speeches from these likes. The idea that the whole of academia can be decried because of this is utter twaddle. It is the mirror image of uber liberal anti-trumpers.

  17. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkWing View Post
    I think the universities being left-wing training children to be victims is one of the most boring tropes of the right-wing commentators. The Ben Shapiro, Milo, Breitbart alt-right clan. There are some universities where it has become an issue where some students have protested against speeches from these likes. The idea that the whole of academia can be decried because of this is utter twaddle. It is the mirror image of uber liberal anti-trumpers.
    One of the better posts on this thread, except the part of the mirror image.
    Comparing this university nothingness to that maniac Trump is like equating the outcome of a minor cold to a global viral outbreak that kills millions.
    Trump is infinitely more dangerous than some universities coddling their students.
    Roll on the protest movement

    But keep on ranting Slim it's nothing if not amusing.
    ROLL ON THE RESISTANCE !!!

  18. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    Evidence?
    Some academic said it, DO, can't recall who, sorry.

  19. #78
    SlimChance
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkWing View Post
    I think the universities being left-wing training children to be victims is one of the most boring tropes of the right-wing commentators. The Ben Shapiro, Milo, Breitbart alt-right clan. There are some universities where it has become an issue where some students have protested against speeches from these likes. The idea that the whole of academia can be decried because of this is utter twaddle. It is the mirror image of uber liberal anti-trumpers.
    I'd like to see you argue that point with Jordan Peterson or Bret Weinstein.

  20. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by brendanr View Post

    But keep on ranting Slim it's nothing if not amusing.
    I'm not ranting, I'm giving my point of view. You choose to call it ranting because it's not inside your liberal bubble.

  21. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by brendanr View Post
    One of the better posts on this thread.
    Back patting of the highest order, stop it!

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