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Thread: Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe

  1. #201
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fonz View Post
    Golden Horn's car park draw wasn't an issue and it shouldn't have been the Doyler today.She should have won.
    She was always gonna be ridden how she was. You can argue had he made more use of her he wouldn't have had what he had at the end. Look she was unlucky but there was always a chance that was gonna happen, high chance even.

    Golden Horn was a tad lucky he was allowed to slot in so easily after his early path. On top of that there was no pace so paid to be on the front end. That and the fact he was pretty good!
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

  2. #202
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    The whole world knew how she was going to be ridden. Marten Julian tweeted yesterday about how she would be held up and use her turn of foot to mow them down. What we didn't know is Doyle was holding her up until next year the way he rode her..
    Formely Fist of Fury

  3. #203
    Senior Member G-G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Geezer View Post
    Playing devil's advocate here but who on here claims to know the instructions given by Haggas to Doyle ?
    He, Haggas, said he didn't give him any. 'Didn't want to confuse him'. Also said along the lines of ' he rides her, he knows her' etc. If she hadn't had to come round one horse when she did, she would have got there. He was unlucky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G-G View Post
    He, Haggas, said he didn't give him any. 'Didn't want to confuse him'. Also said along the lines of ' he rides her, he knows her' etc. If she hadn't had to come round one horse when she did, she would have got there. He was unlucky.
    I agree.

  5. #205
    Senior Member fonz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanlic View Post
    The whole world knew how she was going to be ridden. Marten Julian tweeted yesterday about how she would be held up and use her turn of foot to mow them down. What we didn't know is Doyle was holding her up until next year the way he rode her..
    Give the lad a break will ye! apparently he was up till 3 in the morning watching re-runs of the 2009 arc.....
    Last edited by fonz; 7th October 2018 at 6:18 PM.

  6. #206
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    A top race; tough on Sea Of Class but her her first race against colts in a big field of runners.
    A great day for Irish racing with the first two in Arc Irish Oaks winners, The Foret winner having won a Tipperary Group 3 and the Abbaye winner having been placed in sprint Irish Oaks weekend.
    Along with Gavin Cromwell's winner yesterday Irish form is up there with the best, even if Ballydoyle had a poor weekend.
    Credit due to Frankie for cajoling the filly to win without whipping her, keeping her momentum and balanced in the final 100 metres.
    Oisin Murphy, Gerard Mosse a wonderful mix of styles and attitudes, make racing a great sport.
    If only those in charge of marketing can get the message across so that Wednesday at Cork the two men and a dog attendance might increase !

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  8. #207
    Senior Member Grey's Avatar
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    Mick Fitz on ATR was saying the draw beat Sea Of Class but I don't agree with that. She would have been dropped in whatever her stall. Although coming from the back in a big field she got as clear a run as could reasonably be expected, thanks in large part to her tactical speed. As several have said here, however, there's a difference between being dropped in and being stone last.

    But the margins are very fine. Had Sea Of Class got up the discussion would have been whether Frankie went too soon on Enable.

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  10. #208
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    Mick Fitz on ATR was saying the draw beat Sea Of Class but I don't agree with that. She would have been dropped in whatever her stall. Although coming from the back in a big field she got as clear a run as could reasonably be expected, thanks in large part to her tactical speed. As several have said here, however, there's a difference between being dropped in and being stone last.

    But the margins are very fine. Had Sea Of Class got up the discussion would have been whether Frankie went too soon on Enable.
    His draw made his mind up surely and predictably so. If he was drawn near Enable I imagine the story would have ended differently as he would have tried to just track her through. The result would have been inevitable in that case.
    The Curragh is deemed master ride and now his ride deemed shocker. Fractions in this game are huge. This outcome looked on the cards the minute the draw was made.
    Completely agree with the Frankie comment. He would have got slagged had she nabbed him.
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

  11. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    Mick Fitz on ATR was saying the draw beat Sea Of Class but I don't agree with that. She would have been dropped in whatever her stall. Although coming from the back in a big field she got as clear a run as could reasonably be expected, thanks in large part to her tactical speed. As several have said here, however, there's a difference between being dropped in and being stone last.

    But the margins are very fine. Had Sea Of Class got up the discussion would have been whether Frankie went too soon on Enable.
    Longines sectionals for the last 3f (taken from Youtube) Leader's times only:

    11.61s
    11.85s
    12.52s

    Which suggest (to my unpracticed eye) that, though the pace was good, it wasn't overly strong, and Enable's petering out run owed more to lack of proper fitness than any misjudgement on Frankie's part.
    It also demonstrates (imo) that - once again - the Coolmore cavalry misjudged their pacesetting role, and they were more responsible for Kew Garden's run than anything Ryan Moore did.

  12. #210
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    I thought Doyle ride the perfect race on a horse that loves to come from well back - changing tactics would have been potentially disastrous albeit he was he said a bit further back than he wanted due to being interfered with by Kew Gardens early.

    She had a furlong plus to run Enable down and just could not quite do it .

    Enable was a gallop short after her temperature and it showed otherwise she would have stayed clear I suspect .Brilliant to win two Arcs off such a limited and interrupted prep.
    Last edited by Ardross; 8th October 2018 at 10:48 AM.

  13. #211
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    Unlucky is the most overused and most forgiving statement in raciing...Doyle was 15 lengths behind among rags turning for home and even the commentator was screaming exactly that.

    The richest race in Europe worth zillions in stud value....sorry unlucky doesn't come into it.

    Eased into a better/closer position is what Doyle should have done about 3 to 4 lengths behind Enable and he could still have kept her switched her off...he is after all considered to be a professional.

    Look at how much she had left at the end of the race..she was flying and full of running. So ask yourself; is moving into a more prominent position when the pace is normal going to expend more energy than she had left in the tank at the end?

    I think not so stuff UNLUCKY the guy fxcked up
    Last edited by Tanlic; 8th October 2018 at 12:46 PM.
    Formely Fist of Fury

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    Factor in that Sea Of Class is a feminine looking delicate filly having her first run against colts in a big field, as opposed to Enable , big, masculine and battle hardened. Was there another way to ride the runner up without being run knocked over in what can be a very rough race ?

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    He was in floods of tears walking back in.

    Circumstances got her beat and despite backing her I can’t blame the jockey. Obviously if he could have another go he’d try and do something different but at the time he made a decision that ultimately wasn’t quite correct but came within a whisker of being masterful.

    Fine margins and all that.

    Incidentally, the new Paris-Longchamp is a fecking disaster. Gone are the days of leisurely wandering around and getting a beer at will,

    Heaving grandstands with bar queues that make Cheltenham Gold Cup day look like paradise. 15 minutes queues to get into the gents and thankfully I didn’t have to negotiate the carnage that was the new betting terminal system. All this for the increased €75.

    I’ll give it a miss next year.
    Last edited by wilsonl; 8th October 2018 at 3:42 PM.
    Alcohol, because no good story ever started with "I was eating this salad..."

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  17. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgt View Post
    Factor in that Sea Of Class is a feminine looking delicate filly having her first run against colts in a big field, as opposed to Enable , big, masculine and battle hardened. Was there another way to ride the runner up without being run knocked over in what can be a very rough race ?
    Your post wandered my minds eye back to watching Liz Mc Colgan and Fatima Whitbread at the same Olympics.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    "And still they gazed and still the wonder grew. That one small head could carry all he knew.

    And that small head knew that Impaire Et Passe would win the Champion Hurdle."

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    Lester advised Haggas connections to sit out back and pray; their prayers did not quite work in the same way as it did not work for Lester on Ribocco, Sir Ivor and Park Top in the late 60s.
    It confirms my belief that God is an NH fan, two mile chasers His favourite.
    Who are we to argue ?

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  20. #216
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    Lester, and it should be Sir Lester, and Kieran told James he should ride her as he had ridden her before, Two of the best jockeys in the world. ever. You know the filly and you are going to ignore that advice? For every race you think Lester should have won, there are at least 20 he did when he 'shouldn't' have.

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    1 Sir Ivor could not handle Vaguely Noble in the mud

    2 Park Top got stuck behind a wall of horses

    3 Nijinsky was over the top and led briefly inside the final furlong

    4 Never seen the 1967 Arc

    Watching the Arc again today - Sea of Class gets out a good furlong out and makes little headway on Enable for 100 yards - she closes her down only really when Enable fades - as can be seen from both Cloth of Stars and Waldgeist also closing on her after she had kicked clear of them .
    Last edited by Ardross; 9th October 2018 at 8:57 PM.

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  24. #218
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-G View Post
    Lester, and it should be Sir Lester,
    Never mind the 'sir', tax cheating bastert.
    Illegitimi non carborundum


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  26. #219
    Senior Member Grey's Avatar
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    The new Longchamp is getting huge criticism. Everyone knows that on Arc day they have to cater for tens of thousands of 'anglo-saxons' who like a drink and therefore need to pee. Some of them even like to have a bet (just imagine!) - even if most of them don't understand the PMU and block the windows while trying to work it out. The only explanation for the management getting this stuff wrong is that they don't give a toss.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...red-a-shambles

  27. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    The new Longchamp is getting huge criticism. Everyone knows that on Arc day they have to cater for tens of thousands of 'anglo-saxons' who like a drink and therefore need to pee. Some of them even like to have a bet (just imagine!) - even if most of them don't understand the PMU and block the windows while trying to work it out. The only explanation for the management getting this stuff wrong is that they don't give a toss.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...red-a-shambles
    Sounds like the disastrous opening of the Rowley Mile stand in 2000 only ten times worse.
    Last edited by Ardross; 10th October 2018 at 12:20 PM.

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