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Thread: 2018 Gold Cuppin'

  1. #1001
    Senior Member Kauto Abu's Avatar
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    Cue Card is heading here according to owner Jean Bishop. Cue mattress under the back of the 3rd last.


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  2. #1002
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Be just like the thing he'll go and win and fook us all up
    Formely Fist of Fury

  3. #1003
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Can't blame them for giving it a go with our Duke.

    Let's not forget Percy is just out of the novice class and was running in a handicap 2 back.



    I said at the start of the season he doesn't look anywhere near good enough to win a Gold Cup beating Percy did little to chance my mind
    Formely Fist of Fury

  4. #1004
    Senior Member TheBear's Avatar
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    He was giving weight to what many believe to be the best novice chaser around over 2m 5f. It was a good run in my book.


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    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanlic View Post
    Let's not forget Percy is just out of the novice class and was running in a handicap 2 back.
    Worth stating that Presenting Prercy ran in that handicap off a mark of 145, and won it by 11 lengths.

    I'm not saying Our Duke is going to win the Gold Cup, but trying to run him down using Presenting Percy, is off the mark. As TheBear says, PP is favourite for both staying-novice chases at the Festival for a reason, and is absolutely not to be taken lightly.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

  6. #1006
    Senior Member Double Handful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBear View Post
    He was giving weight to what many believe to be the best novice chaser around over 2m 5f. It was a good run in my book.


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    Or was it a reality check for Percy?? Perhaps he's not quite as good as people think at graded level over fences.....

    Both Percy & Duke are minimum 3 milers, so the trip on sat was too short for both of them. If you weigh up Percy om sat vs Dukes form this season, then he didn't even really run to his current OR chase mark. Duke belted 3 or 4 out on Sat which stalled his momentum big time and he still managed to win. When he's done that earlier this season in open company we've seen what happened.

    I'm just not as convinced as the masses that Percy is Grade 1 top class. And at the current price, on a value basis, I'll be taking him on in the RSA.

  7. #1007
    Senior Member TheBear's Avatar
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    There were some pretty decent yardsticks in their rear view mirror.


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  8. #1008
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    As The Bear says, DH, the pair have pulled a mile clear from three mid-150's handicappers, all of whom should have been better suited by the test, than the pair that finished 1st and 2nd.

    It may not have enhanced Our Duke's Gold Cup claims, but I'd be fairly certain that PP has at least run to his handicap mark, and that there's a fair chance he has improved on it. It will take a good one to turn him over in the RSA, if he can repeat that level of performance, I reckon.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 19th February 2018 at 12:30 PM.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

  9. #1009
    Senior Member Double Handful's Avatar
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    I'm just not sold Grassy. Can't shake that 13L defeat to Jury duty from my mind on Percy's 2nd chase either. Our Duke hasn't run to 160 this season. Before Saturday anyway. I'm just saying it's not inconceivable that Duke only ran to something similar on Sat(especially factoring in the big mistake 4 out that significantly halted his momentum). Which means Percy MIGHT have only run to a 151 rating in receipt of the 7lbs.

    On the face of it, it's easy to say the pair were 17 lengths clear of 3 x mid 150's horses, but Ballycasey is past it imo and then fact he finished in front of the 2 Gigi horses makes me at least question it. A toi Phil was weak in the market and I'm leaning towards thinking Saturday was not the intended day for him.

    Percy has had a bold campaign to date, if not somewhat unusual for a novice chaser, especially with that hurdle race in the middle.

    I'm obviously not suggesting Percy is not a quality animal, and a large part of my opposition is price/value based. If I was sitting on 10/1 antepost docket for the RSA I'd be delighted and have a different view I'm sure.
    Last edited by Double Handful; 19th February 2018 at 12:56 PM.

  10. #1010
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Think you're focusing too much on his second outing, which has been rendered an irrelevance by his subsequent efforts, imo.

    Agree he is short-enough now though, as Monalee not likely to be any kind of pushover.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

  11. #1011
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    RSA looks a two horse race to me (shame about Fountains as he would of put it up to them). Couldn't be cribbing that run on Saturday. Monalee is good but I wouldn't mind seeing him in the JLT.
    Last edited by Frankel; 19th February 2018 at 2:16 PM.
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

  12. #1012
    Senior Member Double Handful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankel View Post
    RSA looks a two horse race to me
    Black Corton and ?

  13. #1013
    Senior Member tiggers1972's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Handful View Post
    Black Corton and ?
    Can't knock him can you, just keeps winning, similar novice season profile to Young Hustler many years ago.
    If only he wasn't owned by fecking Jeremy Kyle!

  14. #1014
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Handful View Post
    Black Corton and ?
    Not for me. Playing for minors if the two at the head rock up.

    Can't knock him though.
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

  15. #1015
    Senior Member Double Handful's Avatar
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    I've attempted to move all this Novice Chase talk back to the correct thread to keep this one for Gold Cup chat

  16. #1016
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Almost inevitably after his race at Haydock, Blaklion swerves the Gold Cup.......or rather he is being "saved" for Aintree, if NTD is to be believed.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

  17. #1017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    Almost inevitably after his race at Haydock, Blaklion swerves the Gold Cup.......or rather he is being "saved" for Aintree, if NTD is to be believed.
    Personally think its been the worst campaign ever should have been Cotswolds, Gold Cup then National.

    Looked absolutely spent jumping the last at Haydock. Not a good prep for anything and a real pointless exercise IMO.
    Man who catch fly with chopstick .... accomplish anything.

  18. #1018
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    Worth stating that Presenting Prercy ran in that handicap off a mark of 145, and won it by 11 lengths.

    I'm not saying Our Duke is going to win the Gold Cup, but trying to run him down using Presenting Percy, is off the mark. As TheBear says, PP is favourite for both staying-novice chases at the Festival for a reason, and is absolutely not to be taken lightly.
    Who's running him down. He deserves praise for that win it was very good just not a stone within Gold Cup class or 3 stone if we believe how good Might Bite is according to you.

    Personally I think anyone who thinks Might Bite is some sort of superstar needs a reality check.

    He's a good horse but he'll have to improve big time to cope with Native River and Sizing John imo

    It's all well and fine to say he idled at Kempton but all you and others are doing is repeating what some plonker wrote in the form book.

    The truth is turning for home the 2nd and 3rd were under immense pressure, Might Bite never gained a yard on them from 3 out and was going slower and slower like he was tiring all the way up the straight.

    He should have been able to leave that lot for dead and he never...simple as

    The fist responder was Steve Mellis who clearly was not impressed. The had fact is he beat a lowly rated handicapper (151) and and out of form Tea For Two.

    To talk about him like he's the next Kauto Star or Denman is ridiculous. I have him in a few accies and he worries me and I was nowhere near jumping through the wow barrier at Kempton.

    The difference between him almost winning that Kauto Star race and his performance in the King George was night and day and that is because he had company.

    It is a known fact that a horse left his own devices will clock a faster time than he will racing with others around him. Psychologically it's impossible for a horse to concentrate the same and they tend to get into a different rhythm.

    That aside Might Bite is a cracking horse but he has done nothing to justify the claim he'll eat Native River,Sizing John etc alive.

    Personally I am depending on accies to get me to s stage where I have money going on to 3 horses because only a fool would think he has the definite answer to this one
    Last edited by Tanlic; 22nd February 2018 at 9:01 AM.
    Formely Fist of Fury

  19. #1019
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    It may have escaped your attention, but Might Bite didn’t see another horse in the King George for the last mile.

    I don’t really care whether you or anyone else believe he idled. I’ve been watching racing long enough to know it when I see it, and I don’t need to read what’s in the form book, to have my mind made up for me. It's not as if he doesn't have previous for it either.

    As for Sizing John and Native River, the former not only has to recover from a desperately poor performance in the Christmas Chase, but he has to defy the stat about winners going in again. Very, very few have done it, and those that have, have been demonstrably higher-class than Sizing John, and had much, much better preparations. Add in reports that his work has been poor (or was in the weeks after his outing at Xmas), and he surely has it all to do.

    As for Native River, I see no reason why he should run any better than he did last year. The ‘lighter campaign will help’ is a phantom as far as I’m concerned, and it’s perhaps noteworthy that Tizzard appeared to question his own approach for the horse, at his open day yesterday. Regardless, for me Native River is a highly admirable chaser (I backed him in last year's Gold Cup), but he is a high-grade handicapper rather than a genuine G1 performer. I’m perfectly satisfied that Might Bite is a better horse.

    As for the King George form, go and read the tail-end of the thread. I think I said you could not rate it any higher than 167, and even that might be on the high-side - which would place it very-much at the lower-end of the scale, in terms of a historical rating. I certainly did not crack it up to be a high-class renewal - I just said that MB won with plenty in hand.

    If you can find anywhere on this forum a serious attempt to compare what Might Bite has achieved to date, with what Kauto Star and Denman achieved in their careers, I will fly out to Thailand tomorrow, and give you free butler service for a fortnight.

    Please stop making sh*it up.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 22nd February 2018 at 10:22 AM.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

  20. #1020
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    Sizing John's efforts over 3m+ to date have resulted in

    Beating Empire of Dirt & Don Poli 0.75 lengths and 0.75l respectively
    Beating Minella Rocco & Native River 2.75l and a short head
    Beating Djakadam & Coneygree a short head and 1.5l
    Beaten out of sight in the Christmas chase

    Might Bite doesn't have to be a superstar to win this, just very good and he's already proven that.
    Alcohol, because no good story ever started with "I was eating this salad..."

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