View Poll Results: Who will win the 2018 CH

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  • Buveur D'Air

    17 54.84%
  • Faugheen

    10 32.26%
  • Other

    4 12.90%
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Thread: The Road To The 2018 Champion Hurdle

  1. #401
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    I thought CP was potentially well-handicapped off 145, and backed him for the Greatwood. The handicap at Newbury suggests he will need more help from the handicapper, before he is up to winning again.

    Defi best judged next time. If he blows again, I'll be letting him go, and conceding that I've probably over-rated the juvenile form last season.
    Nicky was spouting on about CP being a much better horse on Spring ground fwiw

    @brendan -it's prob not relevant to the champion hurdle but I don't think there is any doubt that Faugheen staying is in any dispute.

    if him and Buveir lined up over 3m in March, pretty sure the result will be the same as it will be over 2m
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  2. #402
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    I wasn't disputing it just the notion that F is a stronger stayer.
    As for your assertion over the 3 mile distance we'll never see that so just conjecture on your part.
    Hopefully the 2 mile distance will come into play March 2018
    ROLL ON THE RESISTANCE !!!

  3. #403
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    They have never met so it's all conjecture

    in in terms of being a stronger stayer, all the evidence points to the point winner to me
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  4. #404
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    This staying lark is completely pointless.
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

  5. #405
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Agree, Frankel.......no relevance (beyond the obvious) in the Champion Hurdle.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by brendanr View Post
    I wasn't disputing it just the notion that F is a stronger stayer.
    Check their records.
    BD has won the majority his races with a burst of speed in the closing stages - small wonder he's mostly been confined to the minimum trip, thus far
    Faugheen has raced (and won) over a variety of trips - often making all to do so.
    Maybe it's coincidence they've both been placed into such races, and ridden in the manner they have?

  7. #407
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    Maybe
    ROLL ON THE RESISTANCE !!!

  8. #408
    Senior Member TheBear's Avatar
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    Just on DDS is there a valid reason why he won the Triumph nearly 20 seconds slower than Arctic Fire won the County on the same day carrying a stone more?

    I don't see one.

  9. #409
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    There were ten more runners in the County, Bear, and therefore pace was coming from a lot more places, and was more sustained as a result.

    I'm loathe to defend Defi given the way this thread has gone, but it is a valid reason for the time differential between the two races, imho.

    FWIW, I think Defi would have benefited from a stronger pace in the Triumph....though concede that the form is now open to question.

    PS, For accuracies sake, it was 9lbs more, rather than a stone.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 4th December 2017 at 11:15 PM.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

  10. #410
    Senior Member TheBear's Avatar
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    Fair enough. I'm not Defi bashing. Personally I'd like to see a 3rd horse enter this equation so hopefully he can show his best next time out.

  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by brendanr View Post
    Maybe
    Maybe you should understand this;
    Faugheen is a horse with a high cruising speed, but still has the gears (and stamina) to up the pace when necessary, as he demonstrated admirably on his seasonal debut.
    BD is essentially a speed horse, who has yet to prove his stalk and pounce tactics effective against the calibre of the former. Anyone expecting the latter to sit and pick off Faugheen in the closing stages of the CH probably underestimates the nous of - hopefully - Ruby Walsh (remember Champagne Fever over the same c/d) and the capabilty of his mount.
    Last edited by reet hard; 5th December 2017 at 9:55 AM.

  12. #412
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    To clear up this stamina thing every Champion Hurdle winner I have seen since Salmon Spray stayed further than 2 miles except 1 and he never even stayed 2 miles in a true ran Grade 1.

    That was Sublimity who only one because he was the only horse there who never ran like or was a donkey. Detroit City never really turned up, Hardy Eustace who always ran to the line stopped like shot. Brave Inca had been under pressure for 1 mile and he also died on his feet leaving Sublimity the race on a plate.

    On his 4 or so other attempts at Cheltenham he never saw the trip out once and won about 2 from 20 after Cheltenham in slow run races.

    So stamina and speed is an absolute must if you are to win the Champion Hurdle

    Arctic Fire who for me was a 2m4f horse who was more stamina than speed fished right up Faugheen's backside but back on an easier track Faugheen who has it all annihilated him. Back at Cheltenham again his stamina being the most important factor out battled L'ami Serge up the hill

    This is where I disagree with my comrade Grassy on which race was Faugheens best..to me it was when Arctic Fire was at the top of his game in the Champion Hurdle.

    I just don't feel that will be good enough to beat Buveur D'air who has the stamina to match but is the one most likely to find the extra speed required from the last. Note: Taking it Faugheen has not already shot the craw and Ruby is in the weighing room
    Last edited by Tanlic; 5th December 2017 at 11:54 AM.
    Formely Fist of Fury

  13. #413
    Senior Member TheBear's Avatar
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    The lengths BD is going to gain at each and every hurdle should not be underestimated.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #414
    Senior Member Kauto Abu's Avatar
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    The Road To The 2018 Champion Hurdle

    Not that it matters in the grand scheme of things Champion Hurdle wise but it shouldn’t be forgotten that Buveur D’Air is a half brother to the high class stayer Punchestowns who was a length and three quarters second to Big Bucks in a World Hurdle. Big Bucks is the best staying hurdler in history and Punchestowns got closer than anything else at the festival over the years. He has more staying attributes in his pedigree than Faugheen. We just haven’t seen him further than 2m4f yet, his breeding suggests that would pose no problem. But he is far from just a speed horse reet. He has speed and stamina in abundance and boy can he hurdle. Deadly mix.


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    Last edited by Kauto Abu; 5th December 2017 at 3:35 PM.

  15. #415
    Senior Member Double Handful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBear View Post
    The lengths BD is going to gain at each and every hurdle should not be underestimated.


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    As someone who learned the hard way in both Faugheen's Neptune & CH victores, his hurdling does NOT seem to slow him down... I was massively against him both times for exactly that reason... It had to catch up to him. In the CH, the faster pace would have to hinder him the way he hurdles... It didn't and I don't think it ever has. While he ploughs through plenty of them, his momentum never seems to be halted. I'm by no means nailing my colours to the mast as I'm really not sure who will win between him and the Buv, merely pointing out the historical evidence re: Faugheen's hurdling.

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  16. #416
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Colours need to be firmly nailed on this thread DH

    No Fence sitting by Order of the Fishwifes Act 2011
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  17. #417
    Senior Member TheBear's Avatar
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    I think it was the 2nd last in his CH win that he fluffed but by then he’d already spread eagled the field.

    It’s all opinion and debate from here till March hopefully but I doubt there’s anyone on here who thinks if one didn’t make it the other wouldn’t win. It’s nitpicking between two class animals.


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  18. #418
    Senior Member tiggers1972's Avatar
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    I'm on the youngster's side.

  19. #419
    Senior Member simmo's Avatar
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    I reckon we'll be lucky to see Faugheen come March.

  20. #420
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Berry Gaharti is normally very non committal but anyone who saw him being interviewed after the Buvi race must have saw that smirk of "I got this" Certainly gave me the impression defeat is out of the question
    Formely Fist of Fury

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