View Poll Results: Brexit, Stay or Leave.

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  • Stay

    28 57.14%
  • Leave

    21 42.86%
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Thread: Brexit

  1. #41
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    I'd agree that the fav is 'stay in' and reckon there'll be a slow drift further that way to around 57% / 43% as polling day approaches

    I don't think anyone knows if we'll be better in or out; it's all just opinion, be that from self-appointed experts or Joe and Joanna Bloggs. So better keep what you know rather than try the unknown. I haven't made up my mind yet but being a thrusting, venturing, devil-may-care sorta guy will probably opt for the unknown

    Economically, the Capitalist world seems to be in a strange situation. That base Interest Rates are to all intents and purposes at zero and have been for a long time suggests to a simpleton like me that summat's up; though what that is I've no idea and I don't think anyone else does either

    Three more feckin months of this interminable Referendum campaign. Why couldn't it have been three weeks or so, like general elections?

  2. #42
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    Drone. Do you mean better in or out politically or economically or both?

    there is surely no doubt that politcially out is better. For all the rather stupid remarks about Westminster here at least the leaders have a responsibility to the voters and can simply be chucked out. Look back over past thirty years and how many "lost leaders" have we seen. Ian Duncan smith? Milliband? I think the voters get it right (despite the forums general feeble minded admiration for dictators)

    econimically? More difficult but I think all the evidence is that in the medium to long term most definitely so. Simply put we would not be a a net contributor and our busineses would be freed up from useless over regulation. Trade is not an issue

    in short term there would be some uncertainty but I take the view this is very overplayed. Out on Friday and very little will look differently on monday

    i would stay in if the project was rolled back and to some extent the dreadful ambition towards an unelected overstuffed lazy sleepy bone headed smug superstate is getting a kicking ....but down the line?

    And isn't it time the eu reformed itself a bit? Showed some drive? For fcks sake get rid of two parliament buildings for a start and let's see a big cut in the staff and the outrageous benefits. How can you take seriously such a self serving flabby mess? Couldn't even get round to reading the Greeks bloody balance sheets before wrecking the failed currency

    and do we really want to be in the same "nation" as a load of bone idle bubbles and cheese eating surrender monkeys?
    Last edited by clivex; 13th March 2016 at 3:35 PM.

  3. #43
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    Someone wants €46k @ 7/4 on Betfair on Brexit after the attacks this morning.
    Last edited by SlimChance; 22nd March 2016 at 11:39 AM.

  4. #44
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    I suspect the majority of the higher classes, or more succinctly, the people who don't have to worry about money, will take a punt on a vote to leave.

    The middle class-to-higher working class (lecturers, Guardian Journalists, Junior Doctors, legal professional,), will vote to stay.

    The lower working class or those on employment and support allowance will vote to leave. Unless of course they're from Europe!

    The people on the dole will definitely vote to leave, hoping less migration might mean another tenner from the DWP.
    Last edited by Marb; 22nd March 2016 at 12:14 PM.

  5. #45
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    What kind of sad sicko uses this event for political advantage? Well, Farage (obviously) but also several other 'leave' sympathisers. Allison Pearson of the Telegraph is particularly pathetic. Funny, I thought the vote was about the EU rather than NATO which is what the target of these outrages is. As Jefferson Airplane offered so succinctly, 'up against the wall..motherf*ckers'.
    The older I get the better I was.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Tout Seul's Avatar
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    With youthful idealism I voted to join the 'Common Market' hoping that it was a first step towards a United States of Europe. Too many members of my family had died in unnecessary wars. I certainly didn't envisage the pointless expansion to include disparate nations that bring nothing to the group. I am hugely frustrated by the administration and lack of control over it. It is very far from the ideal I had hoped.
    Trade with the original constituent members is strong and mutually beneficial. Like the UK these are post Empire countries and each alone is far weaker than they were in past times. The UK has some major advantages, a language is that taught throughout the world, most importantly by the world's strongest country economically ( and widely in other major economies, such as China, Japan and India).

    The UK is seen as a stable base by non EU countries to use as an entry point into Europe - sometimes referred to as an aircraft carrier, it is a pleasant place to work and live and has a business friendly regulatory regime (relative). That is the major reason why there are so many foreign companies based here, financial as well as industrial.


    Without the former advantage of commodities from Empire countries, often produced by UK owned companies sending dividends back. the UK is not a particularly strong trading nation. Nowadays many of the main manufacturing companies in the UK are foreign owned. Powerhouse Britain can't build its own power stations, on its own cannot produce airliners, much of its rail capacity is serviced by foreign manufacturers, major British car manufacturers-who they, steel companies- oops, we can assemble electronic equipment but that can be done cheaper and unfortunately, better elsewhere. Where do we excel, weapons-no, highly skilled and motivated workforce- no longer. Financial expertise, we're good at that. Hasn't everyone noticed that most financial decisions are now driven by computers using analytics based on 'Big Data'. Those computers can be based anywhere. The financial sector is being de-skilled and rapidly.

    I am English, I am British and proud to be both. I would like my children and their children to live in a safe and economically strong country. Clearly there need to be effective and fair immigration control. We cannot afford to support those indigenous people, only qualified to do the work that migrants are doing but not prepared to accept their wages. We cannot afford to support all the world's poor. When you are struggling to support your own you can't fill up everyone's collecting tin, no matter how worthy the cause.

    To say that" trade will not be an issue" is to advocate taking an enormous risk driven by an overinflated view of our current strength based on historic facts. Politically we should be seeking to provide strong leadership to Europe, towards the common good rather than self interest. That way hopefully we can build the strong alliances that will be needed both politically and economically.

    Now realism not idealism.

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  8. #47
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    Wrong

    trade is not an issue because of the trade balance with the eu not because of the manufacturing fetish. It's pretty obvious that if they want to throw down tariffs (which will not be straightforward because of worldwide agreements ) then you will get the uk doing the very same. The idea that we are so dependent on their market but they simply can shrug ours off doesn't stand up to a seconds scrutiny

    So the idea that trade suddenly diminishes because we leave the eu is ridiculous. It won't. Why should it?

    the same nonsense was put about by those who cluelessly wanted to join the euro . Absolutely nothing changed. Toyota for instance actually increased their investment despite the doom laden predictions

    its absurd to say that financial services and most especially lending are being "de skilled" . Lending is about the future and that is about the people involved . For instance in my sphere A couple of online date driven lenders are quickly unravelling simply because they have taken the human element out. Big mistake

    and nd why is employment in the city and financial services at such a high? Do you really think banks of all sectors retain unnecessary "de skilled " staff for the hell of it? No way

    the banks for all their faults, are not the eu

    Does it really have to be pointed out that you can have a good balance sheet with a business just handed over to family div or a nothing balance sheet and it's bloody Apple in the making
    no serious lending decisions are made without contact and that will always remain the same . If anything it's more demanded these days than previously because busineses develop and change so much more rapidly

    im only marginally in favour of staying because I believe it the eu will certainly diminish and become increasingly irrelevant as a body but also because the whole effort of upheaval probably outweighs the benefits of leaving .
    Last edited by clivex; 24th March 2016 at 12:12 AM.

  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tout Seul View Post
    With youthful idealism I voted to join the 'Common Market' hoping that it was a first step towards a United States of Europe. Too many members of my family had died in unnecessary wars. I certainly didn't envisage the pointless expansion to include disparate nations that bring nothing to the group. I am hugely frustrated by the administration and lack of control over it. It is very far from the ideal I had hoped.
    Trade with the original constituent members is strong and mutually beneficial. Like the UK these are post Empire countries and each alone is far weaker than they were in past times. The UK has some major advantages, a language is that taught throughout the world, most importantly by the world's strongest country economically ( and widely in other major economies, such as China, Japan and India).

    The UK is seen as a stable base by non EU countries to use as an entry point into Europe - sometimes referred to as an aircraft carrier, it is a pleasant place to work and live and has a business friendly regulatory regime (relative). That is the major reason why there are so many foreign companies based here, financial as well as industrial.


    Without the former advantage of commodities from Empire countries, often produced by UK owned companies sending dividends back. the UK is not a particularly strong trading nation. Nowadays many of the main manufacturing companies in the UK are foreign owned. Powerhouse Britain can't build its own power stations, on its own cannot produce airliners, much of its rail capacity is serviced by foreign manufacturers, major British car manufacturers-who they, steel companies- oops, we can assemble electronic equipment but that can be done cheaper and unfortunately, better elsewhere. Where do we excel, weapons-no, highly skilled and motivated workforce- no longer. Financial expertise, we're good at that. Hasn't everyone noticed that most financial decisions are now driven by computers using analytics based on 'Big Data'. Those computers can be based anywhere. The financial sector is being de-skilled and rapidly.

    I am English, I am British and proud to be both. I would like my children and their children to live in a safe and economically strong country. Clearly there need to be effective and fair immigration control. We cannot afford to support those indigenous people, only qualified to do the work that migrants are doing but not prepared to accept their wages. We cannot afford to support all the world's poor. When you are struggling to support your own you can't fill up everyone's collecting tin, no matter how worthy the cause.

    To say that" trade will not be an issue" is to advocate taking an enormous risk driven by an overinflated view of our current strength based on historic facts. Politically we should be seeking to provide strong leadership to Europe, towards the common good rather than self interest. That way hopefully we can build the strong alliances that will be needed both politically and economically.

    Now realism not idealism.
    the statement that the economies are "weaker" than when there were "empires" is a complete nonsense. Just because other economies have caught up doesn't make the eu economies weaker. You may as well state that because a neighbour has bought a new car you are suddenly poorer. It's A meaningless statement

    so many mistakes

    weapons no? You are kidding.

    cars? Been in a massive upward swing for years

    electronics? High end is strong but far more important is IT and biotech where we are strong again

    steel? So what? Same everywhere. It's worldwide

    rubbishinb the workforce? So why have the demanding Japanese invested here, why is google opening a huge head office in London?

    airliners?
    The aerospace industry of the United Kingdom is the second- or third-largest national aerospace industry in the world, depending upon the method of measurement.[1][2] The industry employs around 113,000 people directly and around 276,000 indirectly and has an annual turnover of around £25 billion.[1][3]





    Last edited by clivex; 23rd March 2016 at 11:56 PM.

  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    What kind of sad sicko uses this event for political advantage? Well, Farage (obviously) but also several other 'leave' sympathisers.
    But the Stay camp have been kicking this particular political football around too, no? And for longer. Cameron has been regular pronouncing "We Are Safer In Europe".
    Surely the Brexit advocates are permitted to question the whole European security issue in the light of Brussels? The issue of ease of movement for terrorists within the E.U., the porous borders, the flaky intelligence-sharing of the various police forces. Is it only saddo's who would query the consequences for Britain regarding the security flaws at the heart of Europe?

    edit: (I've just seen on Sky News right this minute that Richard Dearlove -- former chief of MI6 -- say that Britain would be safer if it exited the E.U. Hardly a Farage fellow-traveller or bandwagon-jumper).
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  11. #50
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    I think the security should be questioned in or out. In fact it makes no difference and I don't believe at all that being in makes it any safer in terms of intelligence

    do security services have to be members of the eu to share information? I don't think so. In fact it's total bollocks. Everyone is working towards the same objective and it's hardly a fcking competition.

    To enjoyably provoke some of the tossers reading this, we have gchq which is the world leader in monitoring I understand.

    Jsut it as in trade, we need each other and possibly they need us a bit more. We don't need 40000 grunts and two parliaments doing nothing to make that work


    however the issue of borders is correct. No argument about that

    those advocating staying in have to answer that point or stfu
    Last edited by clivex; 24th March 2016 at 10:09 AM.

  12. #51
    Senior Member icebreaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clivex View Post

    To enjoyably provoke some of the tossers reading this, we have gchq which is the world leader in monitoring I understand.
    Indeed, it undoubtedly is ! Completely correct.
    But GCHQ -- and the other security services in UK -- are hamstrung by this European Court Of Human Rights catfarting. Human rights are fundamental to existence but tut the extremes to which this ECHR malarkey has shifted to is just preposterous. Terrorists, hate preachers, foreign murderers now seem to be of greater consideration to the ECHR than the safety and welfare of the common citizenry. "Human Rights" now are the first line of defence for the terrorist and terrorist sympathiser.

    In the country where I live, there is an ongoing case of a top ISIS recruiter appealing his deportation. This will go on for years with more and more appeals to higher and higher courts. In the meantime the Gardai and other friendly-country intelligence services say that this man is a real and present danger to life and limb.

    If Britain were to Brexit, Britain would be able to properly and sensibly apply its own human rights observance and not by hang-dogged by the oft-time craziness of the ECHR.
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  13. #52
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    I must admit i am not totally au fait with the ECHR meddling and i do have a suspicion that it might not actually be an element of eu membership but i take your point entirely.

    i can see where you are coming from. intercept some piece of filth on a cross channel ferry, have him dangling over the side (passengers cheering) and have to phone brussels to find out if you can let go

    mind you it could be a case of wheres my mobile. hang on. splash. oh ****
    Last edited by clivex; 24th March 2016 at 11:11 AM.

  14. #53
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  15. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by icebreaker View Post
    (I've just seen on Sky News right this minute that Richard Dearlove -- former chief of MI6 -- say that Britain would be safer if it exited the E.U. Hardly a Farage fellow-traveller or bandwagon-jumper).
    And on June 22nd, at 11:15 pm GMT, we'll all be 45 minutes away from EU destruction.
    Last edited by Marb; 24th March 2016 at 1:06 PM.

  16. #55
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    small blog piece on an aspect of brexit

    Also I'm beginning to hate that phrase. Brexit. its getting up my nose a bit like everyone referring to a horses as "hoss"

    https://cpcmcredit.wordpress.com/201...-slams-brevet/

  17. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by clivex View Post
    Also I'm beginning to hate that phrase. Brexit. its getting up my nose a bit like everyone referring to a horses as "hoss"
    Particularly the use of it as a f*cking verb. It's tosscuntery of the highest order.

  18. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by clivex View Post
    small blog piece on an aspect of brexit

    its getting up my nose a bit like everyone referring to a horses as "hoss"
    now i know you hate it..i'll use it all the more

    owt else you hate?..or is the list too long?

  19. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmo View Post
    Particularly the use of it as a f*cking verb. It's tosscuntery of the highest order.
    Marvellous word.

    thats more like it

  20. #59
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    It's staggering what a complete Mong the labour leader is. A genuine simpleton. Suggests that there should be a standard minimum wage cross the Eu. has there ever been a leader who's so Economically illiterate ? This is 5 year old stuff

    the idea that wages in Romania can be pitched at same level as London is beyond stupid.
    Last edited by clivex; 15th April 2016 at 9:06 AM.

  21. #60
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    "Econically illiterate", nice one, Clive.
    Ah! but a man's reach should exceed his grasp......

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