View Poll Results: Brexit, Stay or Leave.

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  • Stay

    28 57.14%
  • Leave

    21 42.86%
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Thread: Brexit

  1. #21
    Senior Member simmo's Avatar
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    I'd wager they wouldn't have had a month after the English council elections either.

  2. #22
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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...lections,_2016
    plus Welsh Assembly elections plus some insignificant stuff in Scotland.

    If they didn't hold it in June it would probably be in October. Do you really want the 'campaign' to run that long?
    Last edited by archie; 22nd February 2016 at 8:29 PM.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    C'mon Simmo, FFS......it's a month after the Scottish elections.......it's a load of huffing and puffing and hot-air, about the square-root of fu*ck-all a.k.a typical Salmond.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    Typical chest-puffing, tartan-clad, narrow-mindedness from Fat Neck. He is such an utter tadger.

    I am for staying In, for more or less the same reasons I was a No during the Scottish Referendum - an Exit would be a retreat into the kind of parochialism that I inherently detest.

    You cannot unwind the connected world, and for all it sins (and there are many), I would rather be part of the EU, than think the UK could go it alone, and for things to improve by default. Indeed, I think we would be exponentially worse off. Financial Services apart, we simply do not sell enough to the rest of the world, and any trade-tariffs the EU may choose to apply, would potentially compromise that which we do sell. Economically, it's as big a step into the unknown as Scottish Independence was.

    Economic arguments aside, I have absolutely zero faith in our political class in the UK, and the argument about sovereignty doesn't wash with me - mainly because I would be horrified to think that all the decision-making would be placed in the hands of the litany of no-marks identified in Archie's post. I actually view the EU as a welcome hand-brake on some of the more unpleasant aspects of UK political leanings. And I reckon fundamental change is in the offing anyway, that will deliver some of changes that the UK wants. Those changes will be driven not by the UK, but by other EU states, who are now waking-up to the fact that the current arrangement is too fast-and-loose. There is a dawning realisation amongst even the most pro-EU states, that change has to happen, if the entire edifice isn't to come crashing down.

    We should bide our time and stay in. Change will come regardless, and better that we have a chance to influence it positively, than absorb all the risks that a Brexit will bring to bear.
    i agree with the second part and it's an overlooked point. The eu will almost certainly become looser ratehr than more integrated.

    i do not agree about the trade. The U.K. Is the eus biggest market . There is no way at all that they will seek to engage in tit for tat tariffs. Not only that most of their economies are struggling badly compared to the uk. Also exports alone are not an indicator of prosperity. We export double the USA and Japan %'s of gdp and are about the same as France. Either way It's more about the actual value add on exports . The world's worst run economy exports oil at a current loss and bqsic manufacturing exports are operated at tiny margins because of the nature of competition.

  5. #25
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    The US won't give the UK a free trade deal anyway

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...ial-warns.html


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    Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly. _ Harry Limes

  6. #26
    Senior Member simmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    C'mon Simmo, FFS......it's a month after the Scottish elections.......it's a load of huffing and puffing and hot-air, about the square-root of fu*ck-all a.k.a typical Salmond.
    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...lections,_2016
    plus Welsh Assembly elections plus some insignificant stuff in Scotland.

    If they didn't hold it in June it would probably be in October. Do you really want the 'campaign' to run that long?
    @ Archie - that's me told then.

    I'd like the referendum to be in October with an embargo on campaigning until after the various May elections. None of which are hot-air.

  7. #27
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    Nobody wants this referendum except the Tories and UKIP -let those fuckers pay for it .

    Nicola and Alex are rubbing their hands with glee - it is win win for them - they want to remain in the EU so a remain vote is good for Scotland - a leave vote against the will of the Scottish electorate must mean a second independence referendum that they are much more likely to win especially with Corbyn having as much chance of winning a general election as Silviniaco Conti has of winning the Gold Cup .
    Last edited by Ardross; 23rd February 2016 at 10:37 AM. Reason: correcting mistake

  8. #28
    Senior Member simmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardross View Post
    Nicola and Alex are rubbing their hands with glee - it is win win for them - they want to remain in the UK so a remain vote is good for Scotland - a leave vote against the will of the Scottish electorate must mean a second independence referendum that they are much more likely to win especially with Corbyn having as much chance of winning a general election as Silviniaco Conti has of winning the Gold Cup .
    Que? The SNP wants to remain part of the UK but will be happy if something happens which results in that not happening?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    No brainer. Anything that's supported by Duncan-Smith, Farage, Redwood, Galloway and Hoey is basically indefensible. Wales has also had more in EU grants than it would ever have got from Westminster.
    The only people who will vote out are the middle aged grumpy old feckers,anyone under 50 will look at that motley crew above and will find it laughable...hopefully

  10. #30
    Senior Member icebreaker's Avatar
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    I think it's unfairly selective to list down the various lunatic fringe elements lining up for the "Leave" category in order to justify a Stay vote. There are many sane and reasonably intelligent people also on the side of the Leave faction ..... Boris Johnson?
    As always, there are snake oil salesmen on both sides of the debate; Jeremy Corbyn who is often portrayed as a laughing-stock on this forum is a staunch advocate of the Stay camp. Should his participation sway anybody away from this position of Stay?
    If we allow ourselves to be persuaded by the participation of whatever campaigner on the Leave side to vote in the opposite direction it doesn't say very much for own individual independence of thought.
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  11. #31
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    Boris Johnson is on the side of the Boris faction. If he's your best shot at sane and reasonably intelligent it's back to the drawing board I'm afraid.
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  12. #32
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    Corbyn is far from staunch. he's traditionally been against the eu on the basis that it is some sort of capitalist club. The hard left are never pro eu and of course him and his sinister team (described by a shadow minister as those who would believe the wrong side won the Cold War ) would rather reach out to Putin or venezuela

    it has been very striking how irrelevant labout have been. There is zero leadership or commitment

    can you imagine the same under Blair brown or mandelson? They would have been striking hard at the obvious difficulties for the Tories and selling a strong stay case

    hes worse than a laughing stock. He's incompetent and thick
    Last edited by clivex; 23rd February 2016 at 10:46 AM.

  13. #33
    Senior Member icebreaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    Boris Johnson is on the side of the Boris faction. If he's your best shot at sane and reasonably intelligent it's back to the drawing board I'm afraid.
    Whatever about the intelligence quotient of Boris Johnson ( I happen to think that he is reasonably intelligent FWIW), your position seems to be an advocacy to vote Stay based on some random eccentrics lined up on the Leave side which to me appears to be an incredibly weak argument.

    "Anything that's supported by Duncan-Smith, Farage, Redwood, Galloway and Hoey is basically indefensible".
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  14. #34
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    Try reading the bit about the EU being more generous to Wales than Westminster.

    Also, that collection of eccentrics are leading the Leave campaign so it's not unreasonable to use that as a negative to their arguments particularly with the lies and half truths that UKIP produced in the general election.
    Last edited by archie; 23rd February 2016 at 11:12 AM.
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  15. #35
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    To be honest I haven't a clue whether we would be better in or out - and I feel I am a long way from being alone in that situation.

    Feel it will be a situation where fear of the unknown will ensure a "stay in" vote.
    Ah! but a man's reach should exceed his grasp......

  16. #36
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    Best article I've seen in this is by ed Conway in the times today. He's generally against leaving but it's with a shrug of the shoulders. The reason. Because he rightly believes that in or out actually won't make a lot of difference. I think there's a lot of truth in that. go through each issue line by line and ask exactly what the Europe does that no state can do for itself The Euro perhaps???

    the biggest issue is supposedly trade and tariffs. Well this is, to paraphrase Gove, analogue thinking in a digital age. The eu signed a free trade agreement with Columbia this week.

    He he doesn't articulate the obvious point which is that the eu is increasingly irrelevant. It doesn't matter . As we go forward this will increasingly be the case. The key now is to dismantle the excesses from within. ultimately it's role should be something along the lines of the commonwealth and rather than two parliaments and god knows how many fat slobs doing nothing all day, it should move to a three desk regus office in Milton keynes

  17. #37
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    One thing I have noticed is this... Has anyone anywhere given one good reason why we should look forward to a future in the eu? Is there anything at all current that we couldn't manage perfectly well ourselves and probably a lot better?

    those questions have to be answered. But there is no answer

  18. #38
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    Correct Clive.
    Have only heard waffle so far as to why to remain.

    Fully expect the remain vote to win though as the scare tactic will work and the ditherers will vote to remain.
    Last edited by Frankel; 11th March 2016 at 10:47 AM.
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  19. #39
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    Yes. i agree but the leave camp has also to present its case in stronger terms. They should be emphasising that the future plans of many within the Eu is towards greater "integration" and thus less control over own affairs. And the cost. Everyone should be made aware of the bloated machine supposedly running this mess

    never trust an organisation that cannot keep its own costs under control to do anything professionally

    and what of the politcial parties.?

    Arent nt the snp small minded small country small time tossers? Moan moan moan about not having control over own affairs but want to throw their lot in with the organisation dedicated to stripping them of their powers. Petty minded morons

    and labour. nothing. Nothing at all. More concerned with giving opening the borders at Calais. and recruiting Nazi echoing 9/11 supporters. What a total mess they are
    Last edited by clivex; 11th March 2016 at 11:40 AM.

  20. #40
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    If we were ever going to vote to come out..it would have been last time we had a chance. The reason is that we had only been in it a few years then...and people had a clear memory of not being in it. That was the time when..if it was worse being in it..people would have voted us out then. The fact we voted then to stay in tells me that now..with lots of people having little idea of what its like outside..there is no chance people will vote for th unknown..its human nature to keep the status quo..

    on top of that..all i have heard is scare tactics. Cameron won last election on fear of Milliband+SNP...he will keep us in using same tactics,

    no chance of an out vote imo

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