View Poll Results: Brexit, Stay or Leave.

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    28 57.14%
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Thread: Brexit

  1. #1
    Senior Member icebreaker's Avatar
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    Brexit

    I would like to get an overview of TH members current position on the "In or Out" debate in light of last night's EU deal stuck by Mr Cameron.
    Are you a "Stay" or are you a "Leave" proponent?
    Please vote.
    Thank you.
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  2. #2
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    Can we have an undecided option please

    I do note that Cameron is showing a massive vote of no confidence in Englands football team though holding a referendum to coincide with the end of the group stages on June 22nd. Clearly he isn't prepared to risk elimination to a dodgy French referee at the next stage
    Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly. _ Harry Limes

  3. #3
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    fear of the unknown will win the day..they could have 500 referendums..same result,,same with Scotland..will always be stay when folk think they will be worse off..and that will be the message people remember..fear rules

  4. #4
    Senior Member icebreaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warbler View Post
    Can we have an undecided option please
    Respectfully, I'm not sure if an Undecided option will serve a purpose. (There won't be an Undecided tickbox on the ballot papers come June 23rd, most probably).
    This effort is just an attempt to get a capture of whether people on here are leaning towards an Aye or Nay, presently.
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  5. #5
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    Undecided would give you a clue as to how entrenched positions are, and how much is up for grabs.

    Personally I'm undecided, if someone could guarantee me that voting no would mean we would never have to endure Eurovision again, I could be persuaded
    Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly. _ Harry Limes

  6. #6
    Senior Member Dave G's Avatar
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    I'm in the 'stay' camp. only for the reason that there is nothing this island can contribute that Europe cannot do themselves without us. We are a service industry and nothing else. If we decided to leave, it is easy enough for the rest of Europe to move banking headquarters for the rest of the countries to Berne or Munich or wherever. Leaving doesn't make us any better off in my humble opinion.
    You should not confuse your career with your life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave G View Post
    I'm in the 'stay' camp. only for the reason that there is nothing this island can contribute that Europe cannot do themselves without us. We are a service industry and nothing else. If we decided to leave, it is easy enough for the rest of Europe to move banking headquarters for the rest of the countries to Berne or Munich or wherever. Leaving doesn't make us any better off in my humble opinion.
    that is so far wide of the mark. First of the manufacturing fetish is dated and pretty worthless. Secondly there is no way that international banks will up sticks to Munich (not a banking centre anyway) or Berne. And for a start HSBC has just this week committed to London regardless of the vote. They won't get the staff they need. The personnel in banks make the difference and frankly the Germans are not the top of any bankers list.

    The city rules. Live with it

  8. #8
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    I am reluctantly for staying in in the belief that the whole shambolic overstaffed lazy minded project is soon to go into reverse. The torturous renegotiation of treaties will be a drag worth avoiding in the short term . In the longer term I do not believe that greater integration will happen and events are seeing it rolled back

    i see other countries rightly taking the uks lead and distancing themselves from the worst aspects of the whole project. There are some positives. Freedom of movement and trade but then again there is no reason why you need 50000 staff and two parliaments to ensure this.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave G View Post
    I'm in the 'stay' camp. only for the reason that there is nothing this island can contribute that Europe cannot do themselves without us. We are a service industry and nothing else. If we decided to leave, it is easy enough for the rest of Europe to move banking headquarters for the rest of the countries to Berne or Munich or wherever. Leaving doesn't make us any better off in my humble opinion.
    What at we contribute is a strong market. Not something they can willingly wave goodbye to in or out. What we also contribute is by far the most vibrant city and a magnet for their best talent to move back and forth from and develop, be in Cambridge or old street or the city. Believe me if you spend time in London now the huge numbers of young professional Southern Europeans is staggering. I know a good number and also should hardly be forgotten how London is now a virtual suburb of Paris with something like 500000 French living here

    aside from east Europeans this is something that many in Europe most certainly don't wish to lose

    and before he northern chippiness kicks in , Manchester Birmingham and Liverpool were amongst the top ten growing European cities in 2014.
    Last edited by clivex; 20th February 2016 at 8:21 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Dave G's Avatar
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    HSBC will stay, as will obviously the rest of the UK banking sector, but it won't take the biggest upheaval for the main European Banks to move more business away from the UK.
    By the way Clive, I actually agree that the thing is becoming a shambles, and all things being equal, I too would say pack it all in.
    Last edited by Dave G; 20th February 2016 at 8:33 PM. Reason: dupe
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  11. #11
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    True Dave. I think in many ways it has served its original purpose and that was a great ideal too.

    Technicaly HSBC isn't a British bank as such but I know what you mean

    Banks might move move business away and that's. Why the city is against brexit. Really only because they will be compelled to though. Agree with that
    Last edited by clivex; 20th February 2016 at 8:47 PM.

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    No brainer. Anything that's supported by Duncan-Smith, Farage, Redwood, Galloway and Hoey is basically indefensible. Wales has also had more in EU grants than it would ever have got from Westminster.
    The older I get the better I was.

  13. #13
    Senior Member simmo's Avatar
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    Alex Salmond made a good point yesterday that the election coincides with the Scottish elections in May - complete disregard for 10% of the population of the country.
    Alba Gu Brath!

  14. #14
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Typical chest-puffing, tartan-clad, narrow-mindedness from Fat Neck. He is such an utter tadger.

    I am for staying In, for more or less the same reasons I was a No during the Scottish Referendum - an Exit would be a retreat into the kind of parochialism that I inherently detest.

    You cannot unwind the connected world, and for all it sins (and there are many), I would rather be part of the EU, than think the UK could go it alone, and for things to improve by default. Indeed, I think we would be exponentially worse off. Financial Services apart, we simply do not sell enough to the rest of the world, and any trade-tariffs the EU may choose to apply, would potentially compromise that which we do sell. Economically, it's as big a step into the unknown as Scottish Independence was.

    Economic arguments aside, I have absolutely zero faith in our political class in the UK, and the argument about sovereignty doesn't wash with me - mainly because I would be horrified to think that all the decision-making would be placed in the hands of the litany of no-marks identified in Archie's post. I actually view the EU as a welcome hand-brake on some of the more unpleasant aspects of UK political leanings. And I reckon fundamental change is in the offing anyway, that will deliver some of changes that the UK wants. Those changes will be driven not by the UK, but by other EU states, who are now waking-up to the fact that the current arrangement is too fast-and-loose. There is a dawning realisation amongst even the most pro-EU states, that change has to happen, if the entire edifice isn't to come crashing down.

    We should bide our time and stay in. Change will come regardless, and better that we have a chance to influence it positively, than absorb all the risks that a Brexit will bring to bear.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 22nd February 2016 at 12:17 PM.
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  15. #15
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    I would also point out that the vote coincides with the ending of the group stages of Euro2016. That's probably as far as Cameron is prepared to risk England going. Try holding it the day after they've been knocked out in a QF by a cheating Italy, due to a dodgy French referee, acting on the advice of blind German linesman!

    The parochiol stuff is of little interest to me. When I see the conseravtives saying "we want to take back control" there is more than just a little bit of me that doesn't mind having a backstop in Brussels to act as a check

    For me the debate should really be about the direction of Europe and the use of structure funds, competitiveness etc It shouldn't be concentrating on Polish child benefit claimants. This is a real Daily Mail agenda designed to engage base instincts.

    If I could have my way, I'd like to rewind to Maastricht

    I've changed my own mind back and forth on this one quite a few times, and doubt that which ever way I dive in the end, it will be a vote of conviction
    Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly. _ Harry Limes

  16. #16
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    Can't wipe our own ar*e* without running it by them.

    Out please.
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    Typical chest-puffing, tartan-clad, narrow-mindedness from Fat Neck. He is such an utter tadger.
    If it had been a General Election there would have been zero chance of it happening when it is. it is purely a result of Cameron's disregard for Scotland that it is. If pointing that out is tartan clad chest-puffing in your mind, then I worry for you.
    Alba Gu Brath!

  18. #18
    Senior Member simmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankel View Post
    Can't wipe our own ar*e* without running it by them.

    Out please.
    The fact that the country has voted in a party who are rapidly taking Britain back to the Victorian age is sufficient evidence in my mind that we need someone else making our decisions for us. (if in fact they are, which they're not!)
    Alba Gu Brath!

  19. #19
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simmo View Post
    If it had been a General Election there would have been zero chance of it happening when it is. it is purely a result of Cameron's disregard for Scotland that it is. If pointing that out is tartan clad chest-puffing in your mind, then I worry for you.
    In Salmond's gingerbread world, everyone should have Scotland's needs as their first, last and only consideration.

    If the Referendum date had been scheduled for August 4th, he would only have been complaining about it coinciding with national celebrations to commemorate Harry Lauder's birthday instead. The man is a complete and utter buffoon.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 22nd February 2016 at 7:57 PM.
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  20. #20
    Senior Member simmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    In Salmond's gingerbread world, everyone should have Scotland's needs as their first, last and only consideration.

    If the Referendum date had been scheduled for August 4th, he would only have been complaining about it coinciding with national celebrations to commemorate Harry Lauder's birthday instead. The man is a complete and utter buffoon.
    Gingerbread is Armenian.

    Your point is moot because the referendum is not Aug 4th, it's a month after the Scottish elections. It would never have been a month after the English elections (oterwise known as the General Election) and because of this it is quite right to bring the matter to peoples attention. I imagine the majority of Englandshire shares your opinion of how relevant the Scottish elections are.
    Alba Gu Brath!

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