...and who is to say the £5k horse doesn't turn out to be the best of the lot?Originally Posted by Gareth Flynn
...and who is to say the £5k horse doesn't turn out to be the best of the lot?
Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess.
False face must hide what the false heart doth know.
In fairness to Cantoris I don't think he was suggesting that he goes around the Sales without a Catalogue and doesn't do his homework. I took it that he was saying generally speaking you can tell what a horse is going to make before it goes through the ring.
The fact that he insists on spending his 25k is intriguing though.
I was under the impression that he also deferred to Colm Murphy? Which would make sense if you were paying someone. If I've read it right, the syndicate selected Colm who they identified as an up and coming trainer who they could afford, and then placed no small amount of trust in his tutored eye to pick out the horse etc In essence it doesn't sound massively dissimilar in principle to taking a mechanic along with you if you're buying a second car?
If you're a syndicate of course there must be an added attraction to do with arbitration involved, as I'd have thought it near on impossible that 8-10 people would rate the same horse as their number 1 option
Last edited by Warbler; 11th May 2009 at 11:35 PM.
Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly. _ Harry Limes
I doubt the syndicate members have any choice in what Cantoris and Colum buy.They just have to decide whether they want into a race horse or not.
My understanding is that the Brave Inca syndicate was formed by work colleagues and close friends originally, and everyone was pretty much an equal partner with equal input etc? It had very humble origins with no grandiose expectations. Now it might be that Cantoris has subsequently been able to trade on the back of Brave Inca, and fair enough, the syndicate now comes with a track record and thing shave moved on, and anyone buying in to the new horses will doubtless weigh that up, but I'm sure Cantoris says they defer to Colm, and to be honest, why wouldn't they? If you've got a trainer who you trust and pay for his input, who ultimately has greater experience than they, then they'd be stupid not to.
Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly. _ Harry Limes
Don't disagree with any of that .
Quick note to 'Harrison Fraser';
Recommend small advance to Cantoris to right a book chronicling the early days of Brave Inca and the lead up to Champion Hurdle success. The stories, the humble beginnings, the build up, and the ultimate victory. Working title; "yes we can". Book to be published by BHA at as close cost as possible and used as marketing tool
Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly. _ Harry Limes
Might as well use Audley Harrison and Donna Fraser for all the good this marketing think tank will do.
Hurricane Fly - whatever he runs in he wins
Twitter: @Quevega
In actual fact, my syndicate members are given every opportunity to input as I put the syndicate together before buying the horse. Members are allowed to nominate stallions or lots they specifically don't like as I would never want a member to have a horse they are against. Then it is up to Colm to pick them out on the day. He looks at about 80% of horses (remember you would not have looked at Zaarito on his page - 4 mile chaser written all over him) at the sales and only knocks out ones he is dead against on pedigree. If he likes the individual he is willing to give a little on the breeding. Brave Inca and Kimberlite King don't have great pages. Funnily, Captain Bondi has a good page!! I do some homework on the siblings and stallion and if we still like one we go in and bid. Colm will have a number in his head and I have a budget. But invariably the horses he will pick out are nice and fall somewhere between 20k and 80k depending on the interest and the breeding. I am only constrained by our budget on the day, hence we didn't spend all our budget for Raise The Beat but did for Captain Bondi and Kimberlite King. We overspent for Brave Inca.....wasn't that clever!!
That's unusual I think and a good idea.In actual fact, my syndicate members are given every opportunity to input as I put the syndicate together before buying the horse. Members are allowed to nominate stallions or lots they specifically don't like as I would never want a member to have a horse they are against
And they come along on the day and if we are thinking of bidding on one and they dislike it then we don't buy. Most of the time they are just interested in seeing what goes on at the sales and chatting with Colm about what he looks for. Trust me, Colm gets through a lot of horses very quickly.
That's a good way of making people feel involved, often I think people don't get the whole experience they think they're paying for including a little bit of control over what's happening to their hard earned dollars .
It's pretty rare for syndications to involve any members in the selection and post-racing decisions. Not so for partnerships, where the members will actually own the horses, or joint ownerships (ditto). But to allow such involvement is unusual. I suppose one could say, well, don't become a member if you don't like the horse (the usual way), but it's refreshing to see a democratic process.
Power is good. Control is better. (Lenin)
...and that'll be why I do it myself!
Cantoris' syndicate does sound out of the ordinary in that the members have a say - having been part of such a syndicate whereby we had zero say in anything I probably wouldn't own horses in partnership again.
Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess.
False face must hide what the false heart doth know.
The difference of course between my syndicates and most others is that I put the syndicate together first so members are really going in blind. As a result, I'd like to give them a guide dog!!
And that's refreshingly honest, too! :-))
Power is good. Control is better. (Lenin)
There is another way to keep Nicholls out of Ireland. Check out Auteuil racecourse !
Harshly disqualify his horses ?....oh sorry we're talking about Paul...It could still work .
Last edited by Sheikh; 15th May 2009 at 10:01 AM.
Brian O'Connor's latest blog irish-racing.com blog entry below. Fair play to him - certainly doesn't pull any punches!
“As Chief Executive of Horse Racing Ireland, I am delighted to announce HRI’s Annual Report for 2020. It has been a year of huge increases in key indicator areas such as attendances, revenue and prizemoney. Irish racing’s finances have never been in a more healthy state. The following is a brief summation of how we have got here.
(1) Crowds going through the gates of Ireland’s racecourses have never been greater. Overall figures dwarf those of twenty years ago. Of course the vast majority have no interest in racing but are instead entering our track casinos – or ‘racinos’ – in order to play the slots and the multitudinous other ways to gamble in our ultra-modern hotel and leisure complexes.
The result is that most of our customers now have their backs to the action on the racecourse. But the revenue stream is massive enough to more than justify the government decision to grant casino licences to HRI in return for an end to state subsidies which had proven an electoral disaster for our political allies.
(2) The move to reducing Ireland’s racecourse population to just ten tracks has been hugely beneficial despite any outcry there may have been when we announced our decision ten years ago. The reduction has been more gradual than ideal but vitally we are now able to concentrate our resources.
(3) Central to that has been the move to all-weather racing. All eight of our flat tracks are exclusively polytrack, allowing low-cost usage all year round and providing a uniformity of surface that allows our horses compete with the best from all around the world where all-weather is now the primary surface as well.
(4) Ireland’s position as the last major bastion of National Hunt racing is regrettably coming under more and more pressure with just two tracks still operable. Public outcry at the fatality levels over jumps that began in Australia over a decade ago is now firmly rooted in this country too. Despite extensive advertising campaigns to counter false-information, jump racing continues to face an uphill battle.
(5) Initial attempts to introduce discussions on the possibilities of a Tote monopoly were rebuffed with such ferocity by the bookmaking lobby that they have been shelved indefinitely. Legislatively there are too many obstacles to emulate the off-course bookmaking model that works so well in Australia. However enough political will has been exerted to substantially increase payments from the major chains and internet firms in return for leaving them more or less alone.
(6) One result of more bookmaker revenue is the format of our race programmes. Cards containing a dozen races are now routine, mostly beginning at nine o’clock at night in order to maximise betting opportunities for internet and phone betting. Such timing also coincides with increased traffic at out ‘racinos’ from those parties on a night out.
(7) One unfortunate development we have not been able to counter is the continuing decline in terrestrial television coverage of racing. The domestic state broadcaster now televises just one race day a year – the Ballybirt Derby at Galway.
However the good news is that a five minute slot for the race has been guaranteed, separate from the normal two hour coverage of the best dressed lady competition. Another boost is the agreement between HRI and RTE to pay Hector O’hEochagain per ‘upyboya’ on a fifty-fifty basis.
(8) Finally, I am delighted to be able to announce the discovery of some rare and exotic survivors of the on-course bookmaker tribe. Previously thought to be completely extinct, a small cluster have been found running wild on the Beara Peninsula, staring resentfully out to sea, muttering how seals contribute nothing and occasionally wailing inconsolably at the price of beef rolls.
The plan is to capture them, parade the calmer ones at various events until they expire, and then preserve them in formaldehyde and ethanol as mementos of another, and dare I say it, simpler time.
Is mise les meas.”
Two jumps tracks?!
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