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Thread: Not looking good across the water

  1. #221
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    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...262842222.html

    I think you're being a bit harsh there, Gearoid. I don't have access to the Racing Post article, but the Irish Times quotes Horse Racing Ireland as being broadly in favour and has the PP and Betfair also saying fair enough as long as it's done fairly.

    No doubt the devil is in the detail, but this is a problem not just for Ireland and international co-operation is likely.

  2. #222
    Gearoid
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    I dont understand how they can apply it to bets placed on exchanges. Surely this is just another kick in the teeth for the operators who can not afford to duck or avoid part of the levy by going off shore. I can only see it costing jobs in the short term.

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    I dont understand how they can apply it to bets placed on exchanges.
    Given that the exchanges have a mechanism to collect their own commission, could they not use it to do the same for others?

  4. #224
    Gearoid
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    At what cost to the customer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gearoid View Post
    At what cost to the customer?
    The same cost as it would cost you in a bookies....1.5%. You will still be better off on Betfair.

    The crux of the matter is simple.......Irish horse race funding needs to be linked directly to Irish horse race betting. I believe this is pretty close to legislation in the Gaming Act that is being update and will be a major step forward. The current situation, where funding is given by means of a discretionary grant, is not sustainable. This is a very good move for Irish racing and the sooner it happens, the better.

    On the technology front, doen't some American states quite successfully block their citizens accessing gambling websites?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cantoris View Post
    .

    On the technology front, doen't some American states quite successfully block their citizens accessing gambling websites?
    I don't think it's possible to block people from accessing a betting medium one way or another. It can only happen if all jurisdictions buy in to it. I can see some principalities holding out.

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    So how do the American states do it. If you stop people betting from Ireland like the American states do, that at least stops some of the cash getting out. Doesn't help those outside the country betting on Irish racing without paying a levy.

  8. #228
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    Cantoris - Are you an idiot? You think its acceptable for a potential Irish goverment to cost the country thousands of jobs because that is what an increase in the levy will create. Labour are so out of touch with their position.. The american ban on online gambling being lifted in Obamas term is 1-66 with me, it does not work. The labour party have got this all wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gearoid View Post
    Cantoris - Are you an idiot? You think its acceptable for a potential Irish goverment to cost the country thousands of jobs because that is what an increase in the levy will create. Labour are so out of touch with their position.. The american ban on online gambling being lifted in Obamas term is 1-66 with me, it does not work. The labour party have got this all wrong.
    If funding is left the way it is - it will lead to prizemoney being reduced further, leading to a drop in owners, trainers, bloodstock sales etc. Jobs in bookmakers are not the only jobs in racing.

    The way things are going anyway so many of those bookmaker jobs will be shipped off a abroad.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gearoid View Post
    Cantoris - Are you an idiot? You think its acceptable for a potential Irish goverment to cost the country thousands of jobs because that is what an increase in the levy will create. Labour are so out of touch with their position.. The american ban on online gambling being lifted in Obamas term is 1-66 with me, it does not work. The labour party have got this all wrong.
    Without trading insults....are you blind....or do you just choose to have all the benefits to the bookies who earn quite a nice profit margin from a sport they contribute very little to. Betfair provide nothing to an industry they make many millions out of. So happy to be called an idiot if a 0.5% increase in the exisiting levy for off-course shops means the survival of the industry that maintains most of the jobs in those off course shops. There once was a time when you had to pay 10% in a bookies office! So going from 1% to 1.5% is not difficult.

  11. #231
    Gearoid
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    Cantoris - you might have owned Brave Inca but that counts for nothing in what Im talking about. Any increase in the levy will cost jobs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gearoid View Post
    Cantoris - you might have owned Brave Inca but that counts for nothing in what Im talking about. Any increase in the levy will cost jobs.
    What has Brave Inca got to do with this?

    An increase in the levy may cost jobs. No increase will definitely cost jobs. So why don't you suggest a solution that ensures all the jobs in bookmaking and racing are secured rather than throwing insults?

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    You don't have to look far to find evidence that off-shore bookies are making a killing but contributing very little back to the sport:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010...ore-bookmakers
    http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/int...or-racing.aspx

    Eventually, if the current trend continues, there will be no 'big' bookies left on any shore. They will be creaming it off the top and giving nothing back at the bottom. If this is not tackled there will be no levy at all therefore no revunue being generated. If you think times are becoming tough now? Think on.

  14. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cantoris View Post
    So how do the American states do it.
    The US made the transfer of funds from a financial institution to an online gambling site illegal at a federal level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gearoid View Post
    Cantoris - you might have owned Brave Inca but that counts for nothing in what Im talking about. Any increase in the levy will cost jobs.
    With due respect Gearoid, the only jobs you appear to be concerned with are those in the bookmaking division. A division that is already shipping jobs abroad despite making more money than in past years.

    The tax rate on betting is not feasible, nor is the overall bookmaker/exchange contribution. Right now Betfair are paying nothing towards Irish racing....NOTHING.

  16. #236
    Gearoid
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    We have taken massive hits in our wages as it is. The proposal by Labour was made by someone who has no clue whatsoever. If you boys think that Irish racing is substainable without bookmakers than your wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gareth Flynn View Post
    The US made the transfer of funds from a financial institution to an online gambling site illegal at a federal level.
    Did not know that, Gareth. What about the likes of TVG? Still seems to be up and running as a gambling site.

    My understanding was that it was down to the discretion of individual states to decide their position, but that was a couple of years ago.

  18. #238
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    Horse racing was exempted.

  19. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gearoid View Post
    If you boys think that Irish racing is substainable without bookmakers than your wrong.
    I absolutely do not think it is substainable without bookmakers....the exact opposite is my very point.

    I would not agree with everything the Labour proposal has to say. I am somewhat relieved that they have actually bothered to do up a proposal on the sport at all to be honest given their general indifference to the sport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trackside528 View Post
    Did not know that, Gareth. What about the likes of TVG? Still seems to be up and running as a gambling site.

    My understanding was that it was down to the discretion of individual states to decide their position, but that was a couple of years ago.
    That is the only way to do it. All jurisdictions will have to buy into it. There is no technical way of stopping people from accessing a bookmaker who is in a jurisdiction that is not playing ball.

    I blame Cantoris for owning Brave Inca.

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