Anyone Work In The Pr/ Marketing Industry?

[Warbler]

Leaving aside the Denman versus Kauto Star racing debate for a moment. I can't help thinking that the insular and narrow focused world of racing is in danger of missing a major trick with these two?.

What they have here is a potential 'clash of titans' the interest in which could easily be stoked up with a 3 and half month lead time to 'showdown', and extended into the realms of the not just the sporting public, but the general public too. In essence you have alot of the classic ingredients to promote this clash and raise the profile of jump racing to a level of consciousness within the non racing public that has hitherto, perhaps never presented itself. In other words I suspect a window of golden marketing opportunity opened yesterday, and equally I suspect, the racing authorities won't move with the required alacrity and dynamism to capitalise on it.

It's a formula that's been milked successfully for decades in boxing. They do of course have an advanatge in that their combatants can talk (well some of them can anyway) and trade insults etc. Floyd Mayweather and Ricky Hatton can launch stage managed promotional stunts, they can also plug into the nationalistic element which gives it an edge too. It's a tried and tested method however. A say's he'll beat B. B says he'll beat A. Both put forward compelling cases laced with additional spiced up hyperbole, and the ever opinionated public take a side as to who they think is right, and consequently get sucked into taking an interest. As the event nears, this interest is cranked up even further to a level of feverish anticipation. Suddenly not only does everyone want to know the outcome, but of equal importance, they all want to watch it. QED.

There are of course paralells with other sports, where other methods can be deployed if trading insults isn't necessarily the preferred modus operandi. All you need to do in a case like this is present the two combatants as a chalk and cheese proposition, and invariably the public will adopt one over the other as they'll identify bits of themselves more readily with one.

The best example I can think of where this gripped the nation was the 1980 showdown between Coe and Ovett. Now I remember these days well, and I was most definately an Ovett fan (for a host of reasons). I never fail to be amazed today though by how many people claim to have been in Steve's camp , even though I distinctly remember that the ugly one from Brighton probably had just 10% of the following that the smarmy, more televisual, well spoken one from Sheffield did. Certainly the media were in the Coe camp, but the intense level of interest the clash provoked stopped the nation, and everyone it seemed was rooting for one over the other. The overall winner was atheletics which had something of a golden age in the 80's with regular meetings screened on Friday evenings

It's not as if horses can't be used either. In recent times the nearest we came would have been Dubai Millenimums and Montjeu. In this case the interest was centred on the owners, and with Dettori in the picture too, a rolling media spotlight in the lead up to the clash would have guaranteed drip feed exposure, which would have been accelerated as the main event neared. More obvious however, would be the chalk and cheese clash between Sea Biscuit and War Admiral, and they even made a film about that one!!!.

Now if I were in charge of jump racing I wouldn't be adverse to taking a punt on this one, (and hope both stayed fit and hold their form) and thus set aside a temporary marketing budget and get some PR company in to try and promote this event. Basically, you need to get the public familiar with combatants, their claims for the crown, their characteristics etc and then start proclaiming one over the other, and let the debate and opinion unfold. Sure there's an element of risk (there always is) but to make things happen one has to take an informed risk. In any event, if you can get the momentum rolling, you'll get back a lot of the investment in advertising, media coverage, and over the longer term, a whole new set of potential customers. In this case, I think the reward justifies the risk, as I'm sure a pproduct could be packaged in such as way as to capture peoples imagination. In any event, a lot of the activity is likely to be concentrated on trying to secure and selectively place stories in the media rather than the typically more expensive pro-active consumer product launches etc

Now I suspect that the HRA won't have the cutting edge to spot a wider opportunity if it had flashing red lights and siren on it. Which is why I'm half appealing to anyone with an industry background to approach them with a proposal.

Obviously budget becomes an issue, and they've got to gamble a bit that A) the horses stay fit, and B) that the product captures the imagination (the latter is largely down to the expertis eof those involved in promoting it anyway). Golden opportunities like this, don't present themselves very often, and given that a successful campaign culminating in the ensnaring of a whole new cohort to jumps racing is the potential prize, I wouldn't be averse to risking it given that it might take a generation before similar window opens?

Bring on the "rumble in the Cotswolds" - err no. Doesn't really scan does it? Although on the other hand it might work yet purely because its so obviously self deprecating. A rumble in the quaint little Cotswolds??? you're having a Steffi aren't you. I suppose it might catch people's attention purely because some big, blood and guts tear up, isn't really what you'd associate with twee middle England.

I need strap line folks :nuts:

[Harbinger]

You're absolutely right, it's a golden opportunity. The only thing that makes it a bit weird from trying to build up some kind of rivalry is that they're both sleeping in the same yard every night.

[Warbler]

It's a draw back of sorts, as it would certainly be better if they were from 'rival' stables, with owners and trainers who hated each others guts, and preferably one from Ireland (or perhaps France would be more inflamatory) too.

For that reason I suspect the package would have to go down the chalk and cheese nature of the two horses, and effectively manufacture and manage two different personalities. There is every chance that the public will gravitate towards one over the other, as they start to recognise attributes in one that they find more appealing and appropriate to themselves.

There might some limited scope in providing some background contrast through the quiet unassuming and thoroughly decent Clive Smith, against the flash it and flaunt it Findlay. Both owners are committed to jump racing as a sport, and where as neither would like to indulge in some kind of spectacle that detracted from the sport I suspect, as I feel they're both fundamental sportsmen in the finest traditions, I'm sure they'd want to lend 'appropriate support' to something that put the sport on the front pages for the right reasons for a change, even if that meant a bit of licence being granted that stopped short of prostituting principles.

I just think the opportunities to big to pass up, even if the product isn't a perfect clash for the reasons Gareth mentions.

In any case, at some point the promotional build up, other horses who could throw a spanner in the works are going to emerge as potential party poopers, and the possible twists and turns of a gatecrasher coming through would give some licence to a PR company looking to generate a bit of needle.

Would be nice if we could tempt the French into play too, and if a fully fit WoA also turned up in the support cast. It would create a few sub plots to exercise the public if the Denman versus Kauto thing looked like running out of steam. It might also present something of an insurance policy should would get injured, as the momentum should be capable of being carried forward into the Gold Cup, even if the interest in the big clash will have been diluted.

[Warbler]

The Gold Cup is on March 14th......................bugger,

if only it had fallen on the 15th :rant:

"The Ides of March is judgement day" etc :clap:


Still I dare say Gillespie would run it a day later on the Saturday if it meant extra wonga going into the till. It's no great secret that Cheltenham will be a 5 day festival within 10 years, and this creeping strategy of adding a new race every couple of years is purely a stealthy attempt to move towards justifying it. He's put a fillies and mares race in this year. Talk has started about a mid distance open hurdles race that corresponds with the RyanAir. That leaves 4 more to find. Well a second bumper has been mooted, so he's down to 3 with about 3 years I'd have thought. A seller?

[Venusian]

Some very interesting and well-made points, Warbler, and I can only agree with you about the "insular and narrow-focussed" attitude, although, to be fair, it's not just limited to this country.

Regarding Denman and Kauto Star, it's a pity that they're both in the same yard, and will only clash once this season. That makes it hard to really stoke it up. In nearly 50 years of following this sort, only the Arkle-Mill House rivalry of 1963-1966 really got beyond the racing pages.

One of the reasons why racing can appear so insular, and not considered to be a "proper" sport by some, is the extraordinarily lazy attitude of journalists and broadcasters within the sport. There are some honourable exceptions, noticeably Paul Haigh, who understands that abroad exists, also Lydia Hislop, Alan Lee and Greg Wood, but most of them just can't be bothered to look much beyond the next race, never mind the white cliffs of Dover. There are only 3 countries in the world where jump racing is big, the UK, Ireland and France (the rest don't matter). Yet, the biggest jump race in France, the Grand Steeple-Chase de Paris is totally ignored over here, without fail, year after year. The astonishing achievement of Al Capone in winning the G1 Prix la Haie Jousselin 7, that's seven, years in a row during the 90s received absolutely zero coverage. You might think that after, say, 3 years some journalist over here might have cottoned on, but no.

Away from the jumps, there have been some great on-going stories , or "narratives" if you prefer, outside the British Isles over the last few years, which could have been used as great PR for racing, especially racing as a sport as opposed to a business. Here are three off the top of my head: the fabulous career of the multiple world champion sprinter Silent Witness, the almost soap-like story of the mighty trotter Jag De Bellouet ("Le Cannibal"), and 3-time Melbourne Cup winner Makybe Diva. But from here, on this little island of ours, none of this seems to have happened!

Even when I've posted on here (and other forums) an occasional item about, say, SW or JDB, or perhaps the Global Sprint Challenge ("Global, that's foreign innit?"), I've been disappointed by the lack of interest. Not because I feel any kind of personal affront because people haven't been falling over one another to respond to my deathless prose, but if the sort of people who frequent forums like this can't be bothered to peer out beyond the English Channel, then what hope is there?

[Warbler]

I think there's a couple of points there Ven, which I feel can be turned around to advantage.

1: That they won't clash until Cheltenham, is actually a good (if risky thing) for anyone seeking to promote the eventual showdown. The lead times are much more conducive towards building up interest, as what you should get in between is at least 4 prep races for people to talk up, analyse, and ultimately appraise and revise dependent on how they perform. This can only help build up a sense of expectation and occasion as 'judgement day in the Cotswolds' nears.

The best paralell would again be with Coe and Ovett, who for 6 months prior to the Moscow Olympics traded world records on a fortnightly basis so it seemed, without actually meeting on a track. Indeed, I remember a poor (product of its conservative times supposed satire/ impressionist show) doing a skit on a politican who was asked about the race problem in the UK. (This was a time of heightened tension remember) the response was that the biggest race problem facing the UK concerned trying to get Coe and Ovett on the same track together. The buzz was tremedous by the time they had to clash though as a result of this drawn out lead time where both were seemingly raising the bar in defiance of each other. The whole country had taken sides so it seemed, and the 800M remains a personal sporting favourite moment of mine!!!! This was a British affair though, and had more appeal. The clash between American and Jamcian 100M sprinters will probably end up generating a higher profile though, due to the HRA failing to pitch their product into the media merry go round effectively.

I suspect akin to the Coe and Ovett line would be the one that needed taking, especially if conflicting personalities and claims could be manufactured for the two horses concerned; strengths - weaknesses etc some point of difference that invited people to take sides and form an opinion.

As I've said, you have a something like a 3 and a half month lead time to progressively crank it up, with ever rising expectations as one horse prevails at Kempton, and sets a new standard etc, Denman improves on it in the Lexus etc Essentially you can turn the trials into support events and get the ball rolling ever quicker.

I wouldn't underestimate that there is potentially money to be made for one side too, which will only endear the sport to those who prevail. My vision would be that come Gold Cup day, the nation stops for 15 minutes to watch the issue settled. Don't lose sight of the Grand National either, it's not as if this country isn't above taking an interest in steeple chasing, and with the Aintree event firmly established in the nations sporting pysche we at least have something of a foundation to build on. Indeed, coming where it does in the calender, it's entirely possible that this could be a springboard capable of carrying the momentum through to Aintree, and thus ensure that jumps racing occupies a prominent position for about 1 month in the sports pages.

2: This point relates to journalists. To a large extent, print journlaists in particular are prisoners of their own advertising departments, as no paper can make a profit on sales alone (although I think the Evening Standard might have done before now?). The requirements to fill another 3 pages if someone takes out a full page advert (although they can insert a 2 pager of course) means that the column space is variable. My own experience (largely, though not exclusively with provincial newspapers) is that most journo's are reasonably lazy (as is human nature). If you present them with the necessary quality copy and some attractive support images, they'll eventually run a story (provided its half relevant) it saves writing it themselves afterall. This is why you'd need some PR company to undertake the task and not the HRA, who'd keep it within their own ring fence.

Since posting this, I've brought my copy of the Observer, and was struck with just how similar Eddie Freemantle's article was with what I was describing. He's even used the same words, and analogies in some cases. Now fair play to Eddie, but he's just a racing journo with a limited catchment. Someone needs to access the mainstream sports, and sports news journo's etc It would be asking too much to think that Radio5 could make the showdown the subject of one of their banal Victoria Derbyshire phone in's? Or would it? I could see it working on the day before the race, provided the momentum had been capable of being carried forward. Essentially, the willingness of journalistic opinion formers to embrace a debate, will dpend on the marketing PR company who tries to plant stories with them. My suspciion is that it could be done for so long as the horses stay fit and continue to perform.

If anyone has any connection to the HRA I'd be interested to know if they have any plans to try and capitalise on what could be the best showcase opportunity this sport has had in decades. Come to think of it, I'd be interested to know if they're even aware of the possibilities, or do they wear blinkers :laughing:

[Shadow Leader]

Don't you worry, Warbs. Plenty of places (Cheltenham racecourse, the Racing Post and bookmaking firms spring immediately to mind) will be jumping on that bandwagon, I'm sure.

[Venusian]

I fear you've missed the point, SL.

[Shadow Leader]

I was pretty sure the question was why isn't racing promoting the "clash of the titans?" Then again I must admit that after paragraph 3 I skipped the rest.....!!

[Venusian]

SL, Warbler is talking about promotion outside the relatively insular world of the Racing Post, Cheltenham racecourse and the bookies. We all know about Denman and Kauto Star, but what about those poor benighted folk out in the "real world"?!

[Shadow Leader]

As I say, I skipped after the 3rd para....sorry Warbler!!!

The trouble is that despite the PR racing tries to promote outside the racing world they don't tend to get especially far. Racing, more to the point NH racing, isn't seen as glamorous and racy enough.

[betsmate]

A wave of Denmania sweeping the country with the public eager to see whether the big horse with the big heart can lower Kauto's Star?

[Warbler]

Way to go BM, think positive

I'd be very confident it could be done with the right personnel behind it and not tired, turgid and defeatist thinkers that are the racing industry.

For crying out loud, I'm no sailing fan, but remember how the country adopted the Australians in 1983 as something unheralded was unfurling on the other side of the globe. Results were carried on news bulletins (not sports bulletins) and we even watched the final best of 7 shoot out live, such was the level of interest.

It would of course be marketable if we had two distinct camps or personalities

Borg / McEnroe
Coe/ Ovett
Higgins/ Davis

I feel that the industry will just about cotton on to the fact they've suddenly got a product, but will ring fence it amongst the usual suspects, fail to comprehend its true potential, and ultimately come up well short of what they could have delivered.

Incidentally, does anyone want to tell me what's glamourous about curling?

The point you're missing a bit I feel Dom is that racing tries to promote itself. I reckon they ought to take a chance and pay an outsider one whacking great retainer to do this in respect to the shoot out at Cheltenham. A lot of it is simple media manipulation and the planting of stories, ambush advertising etc

I'd be curious to know just what racing has really done to promote itself to a wider audience. Novelty bets, a mascots race at Huntingdon, a greys only race at Newmarket. For Gods sake. These are largely unilateral actions undertaken by course management and decidely limited and amateur in there nature. The two most recognisable personalities associated witht he sport have carved out their profiles on the back of their own actions, and in doing so owe nothing to the marketing activities of the industry. That one of them's a fat opinionated right wing bigot is unfortunate (and probably acts as a deterent anyway). The other is a self-styled ebuilient jockey with a memorable Italian name

[clivex]

I work in PR (and have been in advertising). But on the finance side

havent read all the above, but PR would be a clever way forward. Getting a real story onto the front or at least inside pages. Down to the authorties to pay for it ( project fee i would imagine...not a fortune) of course

Some racecourses already have PR contracts. One of companies deals with Newbury

[Warbler]

Originally posted by clivex@Dec 2 2007, 08:36 PM
I work in PR

Bloody Hell!!!! :laughing: Sorry Clive couldn't resist it norty

More seriosuly, I'm sure you're right which is why I said the HRA ought to bite the bullet, put some money aside and take a punt that this could be the showpiece spectacle that they've been supposidly craving. As you say, media management isn't the most expensive point of entry, and if the product takes off, the gamble will be easily re-couped.

And I just realsied I forgot 'lunchtime at the races' and foolishly omitted it from my list. 10/10 for a valient effort on that one though. It never looked likely to work, as a seller from Hereford was hardly going to fire people's imagination, but at least showed some ambition, and I half think there was the germ of an idea in there, afterall it's not as if the National Lottery draw isn't a glitzed up version of the same principal

[Venusian]

I'm not sure that an outside PR company is a good idea. Didn't they hire the Mark McCormack organisation to do something for one of the Shergar Cups a few years back and it was an embarrassment?

I still say the sport's journos have a big role to play, but most of them can't be bothered, they're too busy troughing on the gravy train. They need a good kick up the arse.

[clivex]

and its the PR company which will give them a kick. Or more pertinently get the story away from the back pages.

The problem would be that most PR companies are note xactly staffed by betting shop habutees...to put it mildly. But most specialise, and although our group doesnt own a sports orientated one, wouldnt be suprised if theres one out there

It must work somehow or other. look at the publicity that paint drying and somewhat obnoxious and charmless sport F1 gets

LOL warbler...and?

[an capall]

A wave of Denmania sweeping the country

C'mon Den!!!

[Bobbyjo]

Warbler,

I think there is a genuine danger sometimes of becoming so immersed in your own world and interests that you become somewhat distanced from reality. We all fall victim to it from time to time.

Your initial premise is...in my opinion...wrong. Racing is far too fragile a sport, unfortunately, to really bill something so far in advance, to talk of a head to head. For all that you talk of Coe-Ovett etc etc...they were always going to make it to the starting line on the day. Coe wasn't going to do a tendon and never be seen again, similar to many horses in the build up to Cheltenham. If you're going to devote a budget to something then you actually have to be sure it's going to happen.

I know of one special Cheltenham preview magazine a couple of years back that had an entire edition front cover etc dedicated to a horse who subsequently missed out through injury. Due to deadlines etc, the magazine had gone to print...it was subsequently pulled back but it cost quite a lot and ultimately by the time it came out a lot of it was out of date. Much as I love horse racing, if someone from a PR company came to me now and said they wanted to spend money on a Denman v Kauto Star campaign then I'd tell them they must have a very generous or stupid accountant behind them.

The sport is just not conducive to such a long run up..particular National Hunt. **** me, one of them could take a fall at Christmas or in February and be killed stone dead. What kind of PR would that be?!

2: This point relates to journalists. To a large extent, print journlaists in particular are prisoners of their own advertising departments, as no paper can make a profit on sales alone (although I think the Evening Standard might have done before now?). The requirements to fill another 3 pages if someone takes out a full page advert (although they can insert a 2 pager of course) means that the column space is variable. My own experience (largely, though not exclusively with provincial newspapers) is that most journo's are reasonably lazy (as is human nature). If you present them with the necessary quality copy and some attractive support images, they'll eventually run a story (provided its half relevant) it saves writing it themselves afterall. This is why you'd need some PR company to undertake the task and not the HRA, who'd keep it within their own ring fence.

Since posting this, I've brought my copy of the Observer, and was struck with just how similar Eddie Freemantle's article was with what I was describing. He's even used the same words, and analogies in some cases. Now fair play to Eddie, but he's just a racing journo with a limited catchment. Someone needs to access the mainstream sports, and sports news journo's etc It would be asking too much to think that Radio5 could make the showdown the subject of one of their banal Victoria Derbyshire phone in's? Or would it? I could see it working on the day before the race, provided the momentum had been capable of being carried forward. Essentially, the willingness of journalistic opinion formers to embrace a debate, will dpend on the marketing PR company who tries to plant stories with them. My suspciion is that it could be done for so long as the horses stay fit and continue to perform.

Look, once again, we've got to be realistic here. You might get away with some of that in Ireland but not, from what I can see, in England. Unfortunately, racing in England has the unfair reputation of being associated with snooty toffs that no-one relates to or scumbag punters that hang around betting shops with nothing to do for a day. People who run phone in shows and any kind of popular media now...particularly with the onset of the internet which has made the web wing of every newspaper almost as important as the paper itself [this is moreso relevant in the Uk than Ireland]...then they are aiming at the younger generation, the 18-35...the football 365, Soccer AM generation.

Racing fans do not fit in with that perception. I know they tried to do some club for young fans...and I saw Channel 4 do a feature on it once...but who was the representative for the new generation of racing fans? That's right...Zara ******* Phillips....talk about conforming to a stereotype.

You are interested in Denman v Kauto Star and the intricacies. So am I. So is everyone reading this. But what about the wider public? Realistically, when it comes to horses they want to know, what price is it...how much can I win..and thats about it. When's the Grand National might be another question.

When you talk of making this more appealing to general journalists beyond the racing ones, again, you are entering territory which operates not just by advertising standards but by realistic practicalities. Racing is a minority sport but there are times of the year where it is relevant and topical. Coming up to Christmas...coming up to Cheltenham...and coming up to Aintree. At such times, you will have oodles of general sportswriters looking to write endearing features about racing...quirky human interest stories that will be of general interest to everyone and anyone. In a way, Denman v Kauto Star is one for the racing purist...due to the fact that they have the same trainer then ..as you correctly pointed out...a lot of the romance is gone.

If you think that any PR company is capable of persuading a leading general sportswriter to write a piece about Denman or Kauto Star then you are completely and utterly off the mark. Ultimately, such people, when the time approaches, will base their approach to such things on their own philosophy. And when it comes to racing, it's mainly that the fairytale Seabiscuit type story is what people enjoy most.

That the further up the racing success ladder, the more charmless it gets. There's no human interest angle to writing nice things about Godolphin or Coolmore. Similarly, Paul Nicholls churns out winners at factory rate. But a story like Danoli or some small trainer having their shot at the big time? Yeah, that's the stuff people want, that's what the general public like when they hear of a minority sport.

But the merits of two greats in their own sphere. Well...people switch off to that sort of thing. It becomes a debate for racing anoraks and those who don't follow the sport will be unaware of the context....any comparisons to Desert Orchid, Best Mate, Arkle, etc etc will need a great deal of explaining whereas in more populist sports, throwaway references to the greats like Best, Maradona, Pele do not need any explaining.

It's a shame...we would all like our sport to get recognition [in fairness, we get plenty of it here in Ireland so have no reason to complain]. Alas, your point is no different to that made by rallying afficianados or those of any other sports who may have a fanatic following but ultimately a limited one.

Come the time, will get a lot of press and a lot of attention. But I don't think that any opportunity is being wasted here. Pragmatism can be a pain in the arse but there's often a logic behind it.

[betsmate]

I'm thinking...

Kauto Star as Ivan Drago.
Denman as Rocky.