It's to be run as a Grade 1 conditions race from next year. No more huge weight-carrying performances as managed by the likes of Azertyuiop and Well Chief in recent years. Was it necessary to change it?
It's to be run as a Grade 1 conditions race from next year. No more huge weight-carrying performances as managed by the likes of Azertyuiop and Well Chief in recent years. Was it necessary to change it?
Disappointing....always an enjoyable race.
Not when its so close to the Game Spirit Chase no,
you will now end up with a 4 runner race at each venue. If it was to be upgraded from handicap status they as well have scrapped it all together because Sandown run a competitve handicap over 2m just a week or so later.
It does make you wonder why they decided that no Grade 1 can be a handicap. When you consider how important the likes of the Hennessey and Grand National are to the history of the sport, it's strange that they're only Grade 3s and can only ever be Grade 2s at best. In terms of prestige, they tower over some of the Grade 1s.
The Hennessey and Grand National should both be Grade 1 races.
It's a strange decision I agree.
The big handicaps are infinitely more deserving of Grade 1 status than numerous graded events which very small fields (usually including a few which are there to hunt around the back and pick up a bit of appearance money).
Not to mention those tin pot Irish Grade 1's that Beefy always used to win.
"The religious persecution of the ages has been done under what was claimed to be the command of God. I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do to their fellows, because it always coincides
with their own desires" -- Susan B. Anthony
SAD MAD BAD
The grading of the race should reflect the quality of the field. I don't believe handicaps (eg a 90-115) in which the top weight is a good 10lbs shy of a G1 rating should merit a G1 tag.
We could really do with genuine G1 handicaps where the likes of George Washington would be asked to give 3lbs more than WFA to Cockney Rebel but it would need commensurate prize money (at least £300,000) and that ain't gonna happen while we still have bookies.
The Grand National presents us with an anomaly whereby the likes of Hedgehunter, normally a mid-160 horse, can get to race off a mark 10lbs lower.
Presumably the upgrading of the VC will mean an end to the Cheltenham bonus?
Illegitimi non carborundum
The Hennessay yes, still as a handicap of course. The National no, not with Amberleigh House and Red Marauder still fresh in the memory.Originally posted by Phil Waters@Jun 28 2007, 02:57 PM
The Hennessey and Grand National should both be Grade 1 races.
This is a downgrade rather than an upgrade IMO..
Chris I don't understand what you're trying to say there - they have upgraded it from handicap status, and why should the race be scrapped?Originally posted by chrisbeekracing@Jun 28 2007, 02:32 PM
Not when its so close to the Game Spirit Chase no,
you will now end up with a 4 runner race at each venue. If it was to be upgraded from handicap status they as well have scrapped it all together because Sandown run a competitve handicap over 2m just a week or so later.
Can't really agree with your comments re: the Game Spirit either; the races are a month apart and are run on very different tracks and each going a different way round. The Game Spirit has only attracted a handful of runners in recent years also anyway so it would hardly be a a new thing. More of a problem to the Game Spirit is its proximity to Cheltenham - a Grade One 2m chase at the beginning of January isn't a bad thing, IMO, and at one of the best tracks as well.
I can't for the life of me see what is so bad about raising the standard of racing? shrug:: If it were a Grade One race already and downgraded to a limited handicap there would be howls of derision about the standard of racing getting worse and being dumbed down, so why is it such a bad thing when a race is upgraded?
Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess.
False face must hide what the false heart doth know.
How many top class two milers are gonna take in the Tingle Creek, this and then the QM though? Could mean some poor fields by Grade 1 standards.
I have no idea how many would take it in but it would appeal to plenty of trainers of top 2 milers I'm sure as a potential campaign.
Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess.
False face must hide what the false heart doth know.
Originally posted by Shadow Leader+Jun 28 2007, 06:08 PM-->
QUOTE (Shadow Leader @ Jun 28 2007, 06:08 PM)
28th June 2007, 8:19 PM #16No handicap should be a grade 1.
Ever.I could be the judge!
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
28th June 2007, 8:27 PM #17Senior Member
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Plenty of top Grade 1`s in America are handicaps, and whilst i`m unsure whether they`d work here, i think certain Group 2/3`s would certainly benefit - the recent Brigadier Gerard and Temple Stakes were beyond awful for example.
28th June 2007, 8:36 PM #18I am with Unc here.
Handicap is a dirty word.
Grade 1s are the pinnacle of racing, a chance for the best horse to win the best races.
Engineering the race to give the sub-standard a chance has no place.Winners have no shame, no matter how they win - Niccolò Machiavelli
28th June 2007, 8:46 PM #19Senior Member
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Like Ramonti and Red Evie? I think making the odd race like the Queen Anne or the Lockinge or even the Juddmonte a limited Handicap wouldn`t hurt racing too much. Look at the Giant`s Causeway/Kalanisi dual in 2000, the third was 7lengths behind - the true champions would still win these contests, it`s not like listed class animals would be getting two stone.
28th June 2007, 8:47 PM #20The scene: Newmarket in September.Originally posted by Desert Orchid@Jun 28 2007, 03:27 PM
We could really do with genuine G1 handicaps where the likes of George Washington would be asked to give 3lbs more than WFA to Cockney Rebel
The race: A £500,000 G1 8f handicap featuring the first three from the English, French and Irish 2000/1000 Guineas, the SJP, the Queen Anne, the Lockinge and the Coronation Stks.
The European handicappers have got their heads together and given each horse a rating beyond 123 (fillies/mares 120) where appropriate. Any horse not getting 123 (fillies/mares 120) becomes inelegible. Top weight to carry 9-7. WFA to apply.
What rating (and therefore weight) would you allocate and what do other forumites reckon would win 'your' race?Illegitimi non carborundum
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