View Poll Results: Who will win the 2018 CH

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  • Buveur D'Air

    17 54.84%
  • Faugheen

    10 32.26%
  • Other

    4 12.90%
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Thread: The Road To The 2018 Champion Hurdle

  1. #461
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    I converted him with common sense........................then I backed Faugheen
    Formely Fist of Fury

  2. #462
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    It's threads like this that will keep us all young and make mice into men

    Unless Faugheen breaks down, the machine wont stop turning
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  3. #463
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    Great debate, and I've plumped for the Hendo hurdler. I can't see anything other than these two battling it out - assuming both get there in March - but I still think Faugheen is vulnerable. Even if we take the view that he was ready for his comeback just after the Punchestown Festival, that is still 15-16 months off the track. Do hurdlers or chasers ever come back as good as ever after that period of absence, particularly 9 or 10 year-olds? I'm not seeing it at all. And BdA should achieve a normal level of improvement from 6 to 7. Defi du Seiul or MTOY for third.

  4. #464
    Senior Member Kauto Abu's Avatar
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    The Road To The 2018 Champion Hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by granger View Post
    Maybe he'll send Faugheen over and send the shi*s up Nicky
    Wouldn’t it be brilliant. It wont happen but it wouldn’t bother me. I think he will send some poor horse over to test the water tho.......who’ll go home with 1st degree burns.


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    Last edited by Kauto Abu; 6th December 2017 at 12:39 PM.

  5. #465
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Phillips View Post
    EC1 will never be forgotten.
    Indeed, I liked reading his tips through the week. You could tell he had his head buried in the formbook which showed his passion. At times he got in a strop, and rightly so, because he was actually criticized for starting a thread on a Saturday race, that other people thought wasn't worthy of a thread!

    In hindsight that was a bit uncalled-for and silly really.

    From memory he was a stats man wasn't he?

    When we had arguments once or twice, we always knew what it was actually about, which was nice to know.

    I wish him well.
    Last edited by Marb; 6th December 2017 at 12:47 PM.

  6. #466
    Senior Member Perpetual's Avatar
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    I have voted, but that is not necessarily how i'd be betting today...

  7. #467
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    I'm the second to vote 'other'. This is my reasoning.

    It's still over 3 months to the race and past experience says that one or even both the principles won't line up but 'other', of course, will. If we look at the bookie's prices, assuming a 115% book, they are calling it something like
    Evens - Other
    6/4 - Faugheen
    3/1 - Buveur D'Air

    If the race were taking place tomorrow with every horse going there fit and ready, I'd be firmly in the Faugheen camp but that wasn't the proposition.
    Last edited by archie; 6th December 2017 at 1:11 PM.
    The older I get the better I was.

  8. #468
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    Nice reasoning.

    Though I'd argue there's no place for logic in the annual champion hurdle / fishwife culling thread.
    Alcohol, because no good story ever started with "I was eating this salad..."

  9. #469
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by granger View Post
    Must be drink taken or some very strong 'grass' inhaled
    No point in berating Kauto Abu for under-estimating Faugheen, and then under-estimating BDA myself.

    As I say, he is rock-solid, whereas I still have some mild reservations about Faugheen.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

  10. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsonl View Post
    Nice reasoning.

    Though I'd argue there's no place for logic in the annual champion hurdle / fishwife culling thread.


    I tried to make a nod to that with the final sentence.

    As I said earlier, I've got Faugheen at 4/1 NRNB, Buveur D'Air at 5/1 and Melon (who is by a long way the most likely 'other') at 16/1 ew. My book is closed until there is further meaningful information from actual races.
    The older I get the better I was.

  11. #471
    Senior Member Kauto Abu's Avatar
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    The Road To The 2018 Champion Hurdle

    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    No point in berating Kauto Abu for under-estimating Faugheen, and then under-estimating BDA myself.

    As I say, he is rock-solid, whereas I still have some mild reservations about Faugheen.
    Grass right now.





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    Last edited by Kauto Abu; 6th December 2017 at 2:08 PM.

  12. #472
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by granger View Post
    Maybe he'll send Faugheen over and send the shi*s up Nicky
    Won't have the balls.
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

  13. #473
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    No point in berating Kauto Abu for under-estimating Faugheen, and then under-estimating BDA myself.

    As I say, he is rock-solid, whereas I still have some mild reservations about Faugheen.

    As a neutral, I'm still siding with Faugheen
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  14. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsonl View Post
    Neck and neck. I voted Buveur D'air.

    Istabraq missed out on winning the race as a 9 year old and made a winning reappearance later that year, admittedly not as easy as Faugheen's. He went to Cheltenham as favourite the following March as a 10yo and we all know what happened.

    Faugheen clearly hasn't been the luckiest horse in terms of injuries and while it could be argued that's kept him relatively fresh for a 10yo, Istabraq proved that age catches up with even the best and he'll have to go some to run the sting out of the younger horse.
    The 'sting' wasn't there, behind Altior.

  15. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by reet hard View Post
    The 'sting' wasn't there, behind Altior.
    That's a bit like saying the sting wasn't there when Sprinter Sacre was placed behind Al Ferof.

    Yes, I know he showed improved form for the switch to fences but that was only part of it and Buveur D'air's Supreme run reminded me of his. He's a different, more finished horse now.
    Alcohol, because no good story ever started with "I was eating this salad..."

  16. #476
    Senior Member Kauto Abu's Avatar
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    Go back to last years champion hurdle thread for that one reet. Too much effort to type all that out again a year on.
    Last edited by Kauto Abu; 6th December 2017 at 3:15 PM.

  17. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    I'm the second to vote 'other'. This is my reasoning.

    It's still over 3 months to the race and past experience says that one or even both the principles won't line up but 'other', of course, will. If we look at the bookie's prices, assuming a 115% book, they are calling it something like
    Evens - Other
    6/4 - Faugheen
    3/1 - Buveur D'Air

    If the race were taking place tomorrow with every horse going there fit and ready, I'd be firmly in the Faugheen camp but that wasn't the proposition.
    Can’t fault the logic here but, as you infer, should the two principals line up on the day then holding a ticket with ‘other’ scribbled on it might feel akin to be being on Liverpool John Moores in the Boat Race.

  18. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsonl View Post
    Yes, I know he showed improved form for the switch to fences but that was only part of it and Buveur D'air's Supreme run reminded me of his. He's a different, more finished horse now.
    Hear what you're saying, Lee, but Altior was a 155 rated hurdler at that stage, and Min's proved no mug either.

  19. #479
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    Therein lies my comparison Reet.

    Altior was a very high class novice and the more mature of the trio in his Supreme, whereas Buveur D'air ran a similar race to Sprinter in looking like his inexperience caught him out as they were going for home. FWIW Min was probably the least mature and I reckon time will tell he is a very, very good horse.

    In the same way that Al Ferof's maturity was the key to him winning his Supreme. I am in absolutely no doubt that had the front three home in the 2011 Supreme run in the following year's Champion Hurdle then Al Ferof wouldn't have seen which way Sprinter or Spirit Son went.

    My point is that in Buveur D'air finishing third in what is looking like a comparable version of the Supreme, he lost little in defeat, especially considering he looked like he had plenty of improvement to come. Whereas Faugheen is coming back off an injury, will be 10 and aside from the 11 year old Fly, in Buveur D'air will be facing the best horse he's yet to come up against. Not ideal.
    Alcohol, because no good story ever started with "I was eating this salad..."

  20. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsonl View Post
    My point is that in Buveur D'air finishing third in what is looking like a comparable version of the Supreme, he lost little in defeat, especially considering he looked like he had plenty of improvement to come. Whereas Faugheen is coming back off an injury, will be 10 and aside from the 11 year old Fly, in Buveur D'air will be facing the best horse he's yet to come up against. Not ideal.
    But my point is; he didn't produce when faced with top class opposition (could be inexperience, or maybe just wasn't up to it). Fair enough,He did in the CH, but only against 2 who had already given their all.
    Just my opinion, but it's BDA who has a mountain to climb, rather than Faugheen.

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