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Thread: Gender Equality

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardross View Post
    I think just about all of the posts miss the point. The requirement is that there is equal pay for work of equal value - hence the tribunal will look at the levels of skill required not physical strength.

    Thus it is difficult to see how warehouse work is intrinsically more skilled than shelf stacking and working on the tills unless evidence is provided.

    The traditional and most obvious example is that finally the women at Fords making upholstery were given the same pay as men doing equally skilled work.

    So no the world has not gone bonkers it is about fair reward for work of equal value.
    I think your right that we did slightly veer away from the actual issue.

    Fair reward for work of equal value sounds nice but that is a real can of worms to be opening. What do you class as equal ? Equal amount of effort ? How do you compare physically taxing jobs with those that are more mentally straining. Those skilled and unskilled ? What classes as skilled ? Equal amount of money generated for the business you work for ?

    It also has a knock on effect. As I understand it Cashiers were on around 8 per hour and Warehouse workers around 10 per hour. So lets put up cashiers jobs up to 10 per hour.

    Once in a pay rise meeting with management argued the case that we were not well paid for what we did where I work. True we can earn a decent wage for Labouring but the actual rate of pay I argued wasn't that good. Lets say I earn 550 per week take home pay. That initially sounds like decent pay for a Labourer which is what the company would argue. I'd argue that firstly as standard although contracted to 37 hours I work 48 hours a week as most of my colleagues do. Some will work 60-70 hours per week and be paid accordingly. Part of my wage is made up of a night shift allowance around 100 top line so roughly 65 after stoppages. Then you have 11 hours overtime pay which off the top of my head after stoppages would be around 120. My job as one of the hardest jobs (or jobs that nobody wants) left in the foundry comes with another bonus depending on how hard you graft and I get around 70 per week after stoppages, most of the foundry workers wouldn't get anything like this even though they too have some rather demanding jobs for example a Pourer gets around 16 per week bonus. So if you took a wage of a day shift worker on a basic 37 hour week his wage might just exceed that of a Tesco's cashier in take home pay terms probably by 70-80. Take into account that a Tescos employee probably get something like 10% off there weekly shop plus any other product that Tesco offer which basically covers everything from Mobile Phones, Loans, clothes, insurance and pretty much anything else really these days then the wages are not that far removed from each other.

    So as upper management squirmed in their seats I basically pointed out that if they wished to keep reducing the pay gap by squeezing us as much as possible then very shortly they'd find themselves with no staff because I'm certainly not swinging a hammer all night for a few sheckels more than the girls on the till. I probably wouldn't be alone in doing a shitty job for a few extra quid and I'd suggest that if Tesco's started paying 10 per hour for people to sit on the checkouts then they'd have even larger pile of application forms sitting on their desks and one of them would most probably be mine

    My Mrs is a manager in the Dental industry and fully trained Dental Nurses wouldn't be on much more than 10 per hour in most cases. She already struggles to get decent staff basically because there are nicer jobs (than looking in peoples mouths) that require far less training for similar rates of pay.

    I'd love to see them get into this discussion with footballers wages not re-them being overpaid in general as whilst fans are prepared to pay the prices of the tickets and pay their Sky Sports subscription deals then they are generating what they earn but what would contribute to an equal contribution to the team in terms of pay ? I'm sure we've all seen that over paid striker who's bloody useless whilst the unsung hero of our club is on a 5th of the money but putting a shift in every week.

    Its an impossible subject to get to the bottom of in my view and the basic premise is that any job is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it and what someone is willing to do it for. If as a cashier you think your skills and values of what you contribute to a company aren't rewarded the way they should be then take your skills to someone who values them. If you think that the warehouse work is paid better and its an equal job then by all means apply for the next vacancy that comes up.

    Perhaps its just my experience but I've found most the cashiers, shop assistants, waitresses and in general most people in the customer service industry leaving me with the feeling of your lucky to have a job because I certainly wouldn't pay them a nicker for their efforts or general lack of. Occasionally whether it be in a shop or a restaurant or even actually my local chip shop I come across somebody who's polite, helpful and bright as a button and it always catches me by surprise. One of the girls who works at my local chippy should literally be giving lectures in how to provide customer service she is brilliant. I've actually told her she's completely wasted there and told her boss he should be paying her more. It probably struck her as strange and I'm probably labelled as that "weird bloke" but its such a refreshing change when you do bump into someone who is good at their job in that sector I felt it had to be said. Its strange to think that's she's wrapping chips for minimum wage and out there some where there are big sales reps or retail managers with half the skills she has probably on 100k per year and the sad thing is she's probably blissfully unaware that she has a lot more about her than a lot of them.

    Tuesdays morning waffle out of my system, cheers.
    Last edited by Danny; 13th February 2018 at 3:41 PM.
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    Colin Phillips (13th February 2018)

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  4. #22
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    Jaysus Danny - I'm embarrassed to be sitting on my arse all day making what I make having read your post.

    My job is to make the big decisions while delegating the smaller ones to my team. Funnily enough we only have small decisions to make these days.
    "And still they gazed and still the wonder grew. That one small head could carry all he knew."

  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by an capall View Post
    Jaysus Danny - I'm embarrassed to be sitting on my arse all day making what I make having read your post.

    My job is to make the big decisions while delegating the smaller ones to my team. Funnily enough we only have small decisions to make these days.
    Haha if you're that high up there is a girl in my local chippy who'd do wonders for your business haha.

    I wouldn't employ me though I'm a lazy, rude, thicko .
    Last edited by Danny; 13th February 2018 at 4:08 PM.
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  6. #24
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    Strangely enough I am on the verge of going to a tribunal -to cut a long story short I work with a woman who is effectively on 50% more than me despite the fact that the work split between us is about 90/10 with me doing the 90.If it goes to the tribunal I am about 1/12 to win -my opinion is they will fold and concede the case -if not they will be made to look stupid.
    My problem is I can win the battle but what about the war -the law says no victimisation but I'd say I might as well write my own P45 if I proceed.

  7. #25
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    Not sure I agree with last point, Luke. My experience is (FDI, US, ICT companies = scope) that when an employee assert their rights that they are ring fenced from retribution and even over compensated with a bit of positive discrimination. In the 80's the fastest way to a management promotion was election as shop steward.
    "And still they gazed and still the wonder grew. That one small head could carry all he knew."

  8. #26
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    It all depends if one is a Freemason or not, in my experience.
    Ah! but a man's reach should exceed his grasp......

  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Phillips View Post
    It all depends if one is a Freemason or not, in my experience.
    Can women join?
    "And still they gazed and still the wonder grew. That one small head could carry all he knew."

  10. #28
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    The way things are these days they’ll be in charge soon.
    Ah! but a man's reach should exceed his grasp......

  11. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by LUKE View Post
    Strangely enough I am on the verge of going to a tribunal -to cut a long story short I work with a woman who is effectively on 50% more than me despite the fact that the work split between us is about 90/10 with me doing the 90.If it goes to the tribunal I am about 1/12 to win -my opinion is they will fold and concede the case -if not they will be made to look stupid.
    My problem is I can win the battle but what about the war -the law says no victimisation but I'd say I might as well write my own P45 if I proceed.
    If you can easily get another job, do it, get the salary bump etc, then leave after an appropriate amount of time and get another salary bump.
    "The religious persecution of the ages has been done under what was claimed to be the command of God. I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do to their fellows, because it always coincides
    with their own desires" -- Susan B. Anthony

  12. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flagship uberalles View Post
    If you can easily get another job, do it, get the salary bump etc, then leave after an appropriate amount of time and get another salary bump.

    I I like what I do -I'm the guy you come to if you have a problem -I'm no stranger to putting in the hours and in return they are flexible about my hours-I finish at 3:30 three days a week to take my boy training.Against that I came home at 8 last night stressed out of my nut.
    Could definitely get another job with better money but I've been around the block a few times and it's pointless getting an extra 50 a week if you aren't happy.

  13. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by an capall View Post
    Not sure I agree with last point, Luke. My experience is (FDI, US, ICT companies = scope) that when an employee assert their rights that they are ring fenced from retribution and even over compensated with a bit of positive discrimination. In the 80's the fastest way to a management promotion was election as shop steward.

    My problem is I'm generally considered a nice guy who doesn't like confrontation-I need to channel my inner bad *******.

  14. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by LUKE View Post
    I I like what I do -I'm the guy you come to if you have a problem
    Picturing Mr. Wolf from Pulp fiction.

    An Capall is spot on with his assessment of the situation re anyone submitting a claim is therefore fairly bulletproof from losing there Job in the eyes of the law providing you have been employed for longer than 2 years as any shorter service than that and you can't actually claim for unfair dismissal although there are still various more complicated routes with which its still possible to take a company to the cleaners under the right circumstances.

    Although you will be protected by employment law some companies will be either blissfully unaware or take the view of we'll sack you anyway. So it depends on the firm but be aware that if they are the sort who generally break employment law conduct they may well wrongfully sack you and it takes a good while to go through the process of making your claim. So just make sure your prepared financially or that you have some sort of way of making ends meet during the process. Very much doubt it would come to that but always best to be prepared for the worst case scenario.
    Man who catch fly with chopstick .... accomplish anything.

  15. #33
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    The Mr Wolf analogy isn't a bad one -purchasing has become one of my duties -a few weeks ago I was told as a matter of urgency I needed to get 3 tape recorders and 60 C60 cassettes-nightmare but I did it-only had to drive 100 kilometres on a Sunday to get the tape recorders.
    Reading the replies from yourself and An Capall the answer is obvious-I need to grow a pair and put it up to management.
    Last edited by LUKE; 15th February 2018 at 7:21 PM.

  16. #34
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    You come across as assertive and self assured on here Luke. At your next 1-1 imagine your boss has just called Henry De Bromhead or Ken McGrath a wank*r and then trust the force.
    "And still they gazed and still the wonder grew. That one small head could carry all he knew."

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    Quote Originally Posted by an capall View Post
    You come across as assertive and self assured on here Luke. At your next 1-1 imagine your boss has just called Henry De Bromhead or Ken McGrath a wank*r and then trust the force.
    Sizing Europe wouldn't have won that champion hurdle.

  18. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by an capall View Post
    You come across as assertive and self assured on here Luke. At your next 1-1 imagine your boss has just called Henry De Bromhead or Ken McGrath a wank*r and then trust the force.

    Ken is my hero -would definitely puck the head off him if he said a bad word about him.

  19. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkWing View Post
    Sizing Europe wouldn't have won that champion hurdle.

    Only time in my life I have been on my knees in front of a television shouting for a horse to win -would have been worth 4 months pay to me.

  20. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by LUKE View Post
    Ken is my hero -would definitely puck the head off him if he said a bad word about him.
    Well Boy. Scoff a blah and go for it.
    "And still they gazed and still the wonder grew. That one small head could carry all he knew."

  21. #39
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    Day off tomorrow-but this is definitely happening in the first half of next week.Stay tuned.

  22. #40
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    Good luck Luke, hope you get what you deserve.

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