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Thread: Gender Equality

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    Gender Equality

    Is it just me being sexist, or do others find the current equal pay action against Tesco, Sainsburys et al, way over the top considering the comparisons involved?
    Sure, checkout girls do a valuable job, but is sitting on a stool scanning groceries really the eqivalent of the physical demands of loading and unloading 40' containers?
    I should say that I spent most of my working life in warehousing - at all levels - and women were largely paid the same rate as men, where they were doing the same job, but the majority were physically incapable (a fact of nature) of producing the same output as the male of the species. There's a reason women rarely worked down coal mines, or in steel works, and it should be blindingly obvious to all but the most entrenched emancipator.
    My wife worked a couple of years as a Tesco checkout girl, and she finds the comparison equally laughable.
    I'm no lover of Tesco, but I sincerely hope this action is given short shrift by the Courts - or has the World gone completely bonkers?

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    The world has gone completely bonkers.


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    When I worked in the scientific department in Coal Board (or British Coal) men and women were on equal pay but the women were never asked to go underground, for obvious reasons, there were few if any changing or showering facilities for females.

    There was was a grade system in place and in fairness there was a heavy bias toward males having that one grade higher. Our argument was that that was fair considering the above circumstances.

    There had had to one didn’t there, Gaynor, a bit of a nutter to be honest, said she was prepared to go underground. OK, all the arrangements were made for a visit to a colliery that had provision with a changing room that managers and visiting VIPs used and she had her trip underground.

    It didn’t happen a second time.
    Ah! but a man's reach should exceed his grasp......

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    Talking about gender equality is anyone else put out at being practically force-fed women’s sport by Sky and the BBC.

    Probably sexist to say but I find it all a bit average.

    BBC also guilty of force-feeding us the Winter Olympics. I just don’t care.
    Ah! but a man's reach should exceed his grasp......

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    The entire gender/disability equality thing is bonkers imho - and more patronising than helpful ( again, to my humble opinion)
    Itís a bit like when there was the outcry about barely any black actors nominated for oscars - the following year there were loads. How on earth can you be sure that youíve won on merit?!


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    It's all getting on my t1ts.
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    I am married to what I would contend could be the most rabid gender-egalitarian but even the expression along the lines of WTF have been known to emanate from her cherubic countenance at the issues raised above.

    And don't get her started on "positive discrimination"...
    Two's company, three's allowed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankel View Post
    It's all getting on my t1ts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Phillips View Post
    Talking about gender equality is anyone else put out at being practically force-fed women’s sport by Sky and the BBC.

    Probably sexist to say but I find it all a bit average.

    BBC also guilty of force-feeding us the Winter Olympics. I just don’t care.
    Agree totally, I'd love to see the viewing figures.

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    I used to love the Winter Olympics but can't be arsed with them now.

    I think the level of commentary and punditry is truly awful. They really seem to be scraping the barrel with both and appealing to the skateboard youth audience.

    At the risk of adding further to any controversy, we're also force-fed paralympics, Invictus, etc. I just don't watch. Hopefull we'll be part of dwindling viewer figures and eventually they'll go to minority channels where genuine enthusiasts can watch to their hearts' content.

    Meantime I'll just be watching DVDs of Ironside...
    Two's company, three's allowed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    I used to love the Winter Olympics but can't be arsed with them now.

    I think the level of commentary and punditry is truly awful. They really seem to be scraping the barrel with both and appealing to the skateboard youth audience.

    At the risk of adding further to any controversy, we're also force-fed paralympics, Invictus, etc. I just don't watch. Hopefull we'll be part of dwindling viewer figures and eventually they'll go to minority channels where genuine enthusiasts can watch to their hearts' content.

    Meantime I'll just be watching DVDs of Ironside...
    Minority channels like ITV4 on a Saturday afternoon maybe??

    I wonder how many people had a similar thought when Royal Ascot or The Derby or the Grand National meeting were taking prime time BBC 1 or 2 coverage.

    The world has changed and the programmes you and others have mentioned wouldn't be on if there wasn't an appetite for them.

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    You're probably right, fonz.

    Anyroads, I'll have shuffled off this mortal coil in 20 or 30 years' time so it won't really matter.
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    I've only just seen this thread but agree re-equal rights bollocks. We have women that work in our foundry and are paid equally. As part of every employees job whatever it may be you are under a pool of labour which means they can remove you from whatever your normal duties are to whatever job they need you to do under business needs. The worst jobs in the Foundry are probably knocking off ( breaking scrap from cast with a hammer) Shovelling Black sand out of the underground (self explanatory) Pouring Molten Metal ( temp 1500 ) so obviously very hot work in the summer especially and quite physically demanding and probably the guys in charge of the furnaces also have to do some fairly shitty Jobs. I have yet to see any female employee carry out any of those tasks and they are mainly kept to core dressing, inspection or button pressing jobs. That's not to say they don't earn their money in their respective roles as male employees also do those same jobs. Its certainly not however equal treatment for all employees.

    I'm not sexist in the slightest but I feel the worst thing to ever happen in this country was women going out to work. I think its lead to a lot more kids being dragged up rather than brought up and a lot more people eating crap fast foods easy convenience foods rather than having proper home cooked whole foods. I think its becoming a state now where because both people "can work", both people "must work" to make ends meet which is a sad situation. Someone on minimum wage (of which there are quite a lot) are taking home just over £200 on a basic week which is ridiculously not a living wage.

    I look around at a lot of couples I know who are both working yet are either riddled with debt or just getting by , no time to spend with their kids passing them around to whoever can look after them and I find it all rather sad. I think it was a much nicer world when one person went out to work whilst the other stayed home to look after the family and whilst that traditionally used to be males out to work and women at home I wouldn't give 2 fucks if it was the other way around these days but when you have small children I think either Mum or Dad should be at home looking after them and not passing them around to all and sundry.

    Waffling, apologies.
    Last edited by Danny; 12th February 2018 at 3:01 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny View Post
    I'm not sexist in the slightest but I feel the worst thing to ever happen in this country was women going out to work. I think its lead to a lot more kids being dragged up rather than brought up and a lot more people eating crap fast foods easy convenience foods rather than having proper home cooked whole foods. I think its becoming a state now where because both people "can work", both people "must work" to make ends meet which is a sad situation. Someone on minimum wage (of which there are quite a lot) are taking home just over £200 on a basic week which is ridiculously not a living wage.
    Somewhat awkwardly worded, Danny, if I may say (and something I'm guilty of myself on occasion).

    For me it goes back to the rise of Thatcherism. It's possible it's just an unfortunate chronological coincidence but I remember my mother going from being a mother to six of us (plus my father) to being a working mother to make ends meet. And my father wasn't badly paid, being a Rolls Royce engineer.

    We were well brought up working-class kids, knowing right from wrong and how to be polite. As a teacher I saw loads of well brought-up working-class kids who were polite and knew right from wrong and both whose parents worked. But it is hard work to get it right.

    Historians will probably tells us it's the price we pay for progress but it is progress at a price.

    I agree about the fast-food stuff. People living basically from hand to mouth go to McDonalds and buy pre-prepared food probably as a way of coping with hectic, stressful lives.

    There will be a small minority of people who simply don't know how else to live.

    I remember watching some old footage on TV not long ago. The thing that struck me was how slim everyone looked. The footage was probably from the inter-war era. Back then for most people life was free of indulgence because they couldn't afford it. The 'make-do-and-mend' philosophy was the order of the day.

    I also recall as a pre-school kid being dragged round the shops and supermarkets with my mother for the big Friday shop. If I ever asked for a sweetie from the penny tray my mother said no, that ten of those pennies would buy a loaf.

    In the year before I retired from work I noticed one kid drop a 5p piece on her way out of my class. When I pointed this out to her she replied, "Oh just bin it. We just throw those into the river on our way into the Main Street." My flabber was fair ghasted I can tell you. The next day I put a jar on my desk and told them if they had any small change they were thinking of throwing into the river could they throw it into the jar instead and I would see it went to a good charity.
    Two's company, three's allowed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    Somewhat awkwardly worded, Danny, if I may say (and something I'm guilty of myself on occasion).
    . The next day I put a jar on my desk and told them if they had any small change they were thinking of throwing into the river could they throw it into the jar instead and I would see it went to Bet 365.
    "And still they gazed and still the wonder grew. That one small head could carry all he knew."

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    Two's company, three's allowed.

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    The issue raised by Reet came up here with my wife reacting in a similar manner to DO’s. On reflection however my own feeling is that there is some degree of merit in the argument but it is not purely a gender matter.
    A Tesco warehouse is almost certainly largely automated and the ‘picking’ ( the process of selecting items for dispatch) should require minimal physical effort and as such should be well within the capabilities of both male and female employees. I would imagine that there are some jobs that require a degree of muscle and or skill particularly when goods are delivered. The vast majority of actions would require reading or inputting barcodes - not unlike cashiers. I would think that in general the cashier ‘s job is more enjoyable due to greater human interaction though obviously there are exceptions.
    It suits the unions to argue the gender issue to get support but it could be argued that warehouse jobs are easier now and that their pay could be reduced.
    BTW how many men get promoted to cashier when it seems that shoppers prefer females at the checkout?
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    I think just about all of the posts miss the point. The requirement is that there is equal pay for work of equal value - hence the tribunal will look at the levels of skill required not physical strength.

    Thus it is difficult to see how warehouse work is intrinsically more skilled than shelf stacking and working on the tills unless evidence is provided.

    The traditional and most obvious example is that finally the women at Fords making upholstery were given the same pay as men doing equally skilled work.

    So no the world has not gone bonkers it is about fair reward for work of equal value.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tout Seul View Post
    BTW how many men get promoted to cashier when it seems that shoppers prefer females at the checkout?
    You mean there is a level below cashier?

    At my new local Aldi it seems to me you're much more likely to see a bloke on the till.

    And, at the risk of upsetting some people, I'd say the blokes are less likely to engage in time-wasting chit-chat.
    Two's company, three's allowed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    You mean there is a level below cashier?

    At my new local Aldi it seems to me you're much more likely to see a bloke on the till.

    And, at the risk of upsetting some people, I'd say the blokes are less likely to engage in time-wasting chit-chat.
    In a supermarket the other day I observed two young men talking about a video game at length and doing bugger all until their female supervisor came over !

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