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Thread: Is Donald Trump mad?

  1. #1
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    Is Donald Trump mad?

    Joe Scarborough's hysterical appeal this morning to the cabinet to invoke the 25th amendment on the President

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw7N..._SMj9F5tuqdtKe
    Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly. _ Harry Limes

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  3. #2
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    Mad, bad and extremely dangerous to know.
    The older I get the better I was.

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    He won't be around much longer..

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    Hope you are right Gigilo.

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    The plot thickens as Michael Flynn is given a plea deal in return for full cooperation in the on going investigation headed by Robert Mueller.
    Luck leaves when unlucky people speak

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    Yes.
    "And still they gazed and still the wonder grew. That one small head could carry all he knew."

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    Quote Originally Posted by brendanr View Post
    The plot thickens as Michael Flynn is given a plea deal in return for full cooperation in the on going investigation headed by Robert Mueller.
    This is where I think I am (still) with the "Russia thing" (sometimes called a nothing burger - as people are saying) - the stuff below is something I got hammered for saying a few days ago, and I've adapted the context slightly for TH

    There's a few strands on this, none of which are complicated at a very basic level, though become complex very quickly once you dive into itThe first concerns Trump the businessman and Trump politician. I think the two things are mostly entities apart. I'm finding Trump's connections to 'organised' Russian business to be much more compelling than the political angle though. I think there's a mounting wall of evidence to suggest that Trump has been swimming in shark infested waters in terms of finance and investment, and I wouldn't be surprised if there is an expansion into this area. Trump himself did seem to react with aggressive alarm when it was suggested that his finances might be investigated

    Before going onto the next bit though, I think it's worth reflecting that Trump is 71 years old and showing marked signs of deterioration. This might actually help insulate him however. In real estate he does at least have a familiarity with the core job and can trade off memory. At the very best he can build on knowledge he already has. This is much easier than learning a whole load of new things which is what the political world demands of him, and he's frankly giving the impression that's he's struggling to adapt. Basically he doesn't look capable.

    Once out of his comfort zone Trump becomes a demander rather than a commander. He knows what he wants. He wants to win. But he hasn't actually got a clue how to do it. Look at his campaign. It wasn't high-tech. The bits he was directing relied on 1950's tactics. Yard boards, bumper stickers, red hats etc The 21st century input was coming from other peopleSo Trump is sitting there saying "make me win, make me popular, find me voters, I want to win" etc It isn't too far removed from the next demand someone would issue. "I don't care how you do it, just make me win". This is where I sense that things begin to derail. Trump has empowered more capable people than him to command the operation, and as they've grown ever more desperate against a deteriorating campaign, they've begun to stretch the ethics in pursuit of their goal

    Trump isn't some evil global mastermind sitting in a leather chair, behind an oak desk, stroking a white cat, and tossing the fingers of Megan Kelly into a piranha tank. He hasn't got the know how to co-ordinate a sophisticated campaign with Russian collusion. It's much more likely that what the WaPo describes as lower ranking members of the campaign have done this instead, quite probably to please their demanding emperor, who looks more like Ethelred the Unready than Goldfinger

    It's equally likely that because they would be working against a ticking clock and desperately trying to make up ground on Hillary Clinton, that they aren't going to waste their time briefing Trump about the precise tactics they're using other than enough for Trump to form the view that they're smart folks doing clever things with computer marketing

    So who exactly? Well the big, big finger is beginning to point at Jared Kushner as the director behind a lot of this. Trump I'm beginning to believe is largely ignorant of the detail that's been going on, not because he observes a higher moral code, but because they missed him out of the explanation, because it would take too long to explain everything to him

    This is where Trump then walks into a potential indictment of his own making though; that of obstruction when firing Jim Comey. If my hypothesis is correct of course, then Trump has done that much wrong himself. He hasn't sanctioned anything. The most he's likely done is give some of his lieutenants an open brief to push the envelope, and they've taken it and not told him. Under this scenario I can understand why Comey would annoy him. As far he's concerned Comey would be an obsessive distraction who is preventing his administration from working. Trump knows that Comey can't turn anything up on him, precisely because he hasn't directly authorised much (if anything), and for that reason he becomes an expendable irritant. Let's not forget of course that Comey told Trump that he personally wasn't under investigation

    Now we know of course that one of the prime movers behind the decision to fire Comey was Jared Kushner, who had lobbied for it, even trying to convince Trump that Comey could lead to the President. My own suspicion is that Comey would actually alight on Kushner, and he was disguising this danger and presenting is as threat to Trump in order to persuade the President to remove the threat

    That Miller and Trump made such a mess of drafting the letter to Comey seems to underline that they were oblivious to the jeopardy the President was placing himself in by agreeing to Kushner's advice. That Rosenstein had to rewrite it also suggests there was a problem. Even 24 hrs later Trump does a remarkable interview with Lester Holt where he just blows the whole justification up on television, again, seemingly oblivious to the fact he's laying himself wide open to an obstruction charge. We learn months later that he's begun to hold Kushner responsible for this bad political advice. Well of course he is doing. Before he fired Comey the chances are there wasn't a great deal they could make stick on Trump individually, now they can.

    That I believe, is where we are at.
    Last edited by Warbler; 1st December 2017 at 9:33 PM.
    Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly. _ Harry Limes

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    Allow me to summarise for those who haven’t followed matters:

    1. Flynn’s evidence will do Trump bang-to-rights.
    2. The GOP might not give a ****.
    Spouting shite on here since 2006.

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    I wouldn't be so certain Flynn does for the Donald, but he sure as hell can make life very uncomfortable for Kushner

    I think the other individual who has to be very concerned right now is due before Mueller in the next week or so; Hope Hicks. Now she probably could do for Trump, but will she? Stick or twist, the audacity of hope!

    Also Adam Schiff has disclosed that AG Sessions gave a very unusual answer (or rather didn't answer) to the Senate investigation this week, relying on privilege, without stating which one he was invoking. It's just possible that he might have told Mueller something and been asked to keep it quiet which would then prevent him telling the Senate hearing if they've asked the same question

    I think the stronger evidence against Trump is his part in money laundering and organised Russian crime. That's a state offence remember, and needn't be covered by federal pardoning prerogatives. I also think he's probably done enough to incriminate himself on an obstruction charge, but that's more of a debatable point
    Last edited by Warbler; 1st December 2017 at 10:45 PM.
    Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long Holly. _ Harry Limes

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    The deranged one is becoming incrementally more unhinged.
    Tweeting that: "the FBI is ruined, its reputation is in Tatters - worst in History!"
    And of course his standard follow up: "But fear not, we will bring it back to greatness."

    Truly monumental. I did not think I'd see the wall come down in Germany during my lifetime. OOps!
    That was a good thing even with all the follow up issues that have enveloped the country since.


    But this type of rapid decent to a subterranean mindset in the American political class beats that event a few times over in my estimation. Wow!!
    There was Dubya recently and his eminence of darkness, the "Dick".

    Drumpf is something completely different.
    PT Barnum's "there's a sucker born every minute" finding mass approval in the electorate that put this caveman into the white house.

    I fear that the bottom of the abyss has not been reached yet.
    Luck leaves when unlucky people speak

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    Trump's a deranged arsehole who talks a dangerous and odious talk but IMO he'll never be allowed to walk the walk, as the President actually has very limited powers as an individual: the two chambers of Congress hold the power, and I reckon they and Trump's 'team' put up with his bellicose and other inanities knowing that it is in effect just inconsequential bluster from a fool

    For reasons best known to themselves around 47% of voters of the 56% who bothered to turn out voted for Trump: circa 22% of the popoulation, so Trump is not representative of the USA as a whole and I for one do not adhere to the view, primarily from the liberal 'elite' and left that the so-called 'special relationship' we have with them should be reconsidered because Trump is de jure top dog. We have a strong tie with the USA not with its presidents, who come and go

    It's a shame that Putin is a right-wing authoritarian and Trump a right-wing wanna-be authoritarian, as if they were moderates a Russian-American axis would be a precious relationship

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    Donald Trump is just the epicentre of the political and culture wars in America. All yank media does now is be outraged with the other side. It's unbelievably toxic and they got the president that deserved, one with utter contempt with protocol.

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    There is of course Roy Moore an alleged pedophile running for the Senate in Alabama and Drumpf's wholehearted endorsement today.
    Or this just in his shrinking of about 2 mill acres of federally protected land monuments
    One response I read was: “We are grateful that today’s action will allow ranchers to resume their role as responsible stewards of the land and drivers of rural economies,”
    My initial reaction was, have I woken up in a John Ford western.
    Luck leaves when unlucky people speak

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    The word alleged is important. How many men have lost their jobs with this #metoo bullshit? Not one of them went through the correct criminal channels. It's **** like that why American politics is so divisive.
    Last edited by SlimChance; 4th December 2017 at 9:18 PM.

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    I think discrimination of women to downright sexual harassment has been endemic within the male population for forever.
    So I accept all the outing that is occurring now, it's about time, but I also accept that some men will get caught and possibly crushed in a veil of unwarranted suspicions.
    That's the price to be paid.

    In the Roy Moore case I happen to think he's guilty. America has a powerful history of disreputable Holy Rollers and he lines up nicely in there.
    Of course he has not been convicted or even charged so maybe all is in order.
    Luck leaves when unlucky people speak

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    Quote Originally Posted by brendanr View Post
    So I accept all the outing that is occurring now, it's about time, but I also accept that some men will get caught and possibly crushed in a veil of unwarranted suspicions.
    That's the price to be paid.
    So innocent men being crushed is ok? **** me is it not obvious that you're outlook is as much a problem as those you oppose?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlimChance View Post
    The word alleged is important. How many men have lost their jobs with this #metoo bullshit? Not one of them went through the correct criminal channels. It's **** like that why American politics is so divisive.
    Slim, Moore doesn't even deny he made the advance. In the toothless-hick backwaters of Alabammy, this kind of thing isn't all that unusual; which probably explains why the voters in certain parts of the South prefer a paedophile to a liberal, to represent them in the Senate. It's utterly unbelievable.

    About the only good thing you can say about the deviant cu*nts, is that they at least have a banging theme-tune.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsC4kf6x_Q0
    Spouting shite on here since 2006.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlimChance View Post
    So innocent men being crushed is ok? **** me is it not obvious that you're outlook is as much a problem as those you oppose?
    Dont think you quite get it I'm just being realistic.
    Fact is it's been no big deal that women have for countless times been dealt shitty cards from a stacked deck.
    I sleep well with my outlook, thanks for asking.

    I oppose the purveyors of fake news, lies, distortions of which there are a lot more than facts based reporting.

    Earlier you were quoting Adam Smith. He would have abhorred Drumpf.
    Last edited by brendanr; 4th December 2017 at 11:14 PM.
    Luck leaves when unlucky people speak

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    Quote Originally Posted by brendanr View Post
    Dont think you quite get it I'm just being realistic.
    Fact is it's been no big deal that women have for countless times been dealt shitty cards from a stacked deck.
    I sleep well with my outlook, thanks for asking.

    I oppose the purveyors of fake news, lies, distortions of which there are a lot more than facts based reporting.

    Earlier you were quoting Adam Smith. He would have abhorred Drumpf.
    I just can't ever agree with someone losing their job for an allegation. The biggest problem being only the alleged sex harassers in positions of power get outed.

    I think Adam Smith would have abhorred the whole US culture wars and trial by Twitter too.
    Last edited by SlimChance; 4th December 2017 at 11:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlimChance View Post
    I just can't ever agree with someone losing their job for an allegation. The biggest problem being only the alleged sex harassers in positions of power get outed.

    I think Adam Smith would have abhorred the whole US culture wars and trial by Twitter too.
    Well there is more than one allegation isn't there? What if it's true then there is a ******* pedophile in one of the world's most powerful political institutions.
    What about the higher standard these people should be setting? The problem is there is almost none anymore. There was a time when Moore would have been given the boot no questions asked.

    In the 1984 presidential campaign Gary Hart was a clear leader on the democrat side and many thought he had a good chance of taking Reagan down.
    Then the Monkey Business showed up and that was the end of Gary Hart.
    He was caught in an affair of adultery admittedly a bit different to slick Willie Roy who is being accused
    I've pulled the following quote from a Vanity Affair article from 1987:

    Hart’s political demise remains an object of intense conversation because the central question remains unanswered: How could a man so dangerously flawed come so close to persuading us that he was fit to lead a superpower through the perils of the nuclear age? I have been dismayed that many people fail to grasp what is really at issue here. The key to the downfall of Gary Hart is not adultery. It is character. And that is an issue that will not go away

    The character issue is more vital today then it was in 1984 and is being almost completely ignored.

    As for the most powerful being outed damn right if it is only them. They are in a position of doing the most damage.
    All those mostly catholic priests that were outed as sexual predators.
    There are enough people out there peddling the trash that the holocaust was a myth, completely overrated.
    They sit in some state parliaments of Germany

    Granted about Adam Smith but I think he would look at these times in general and be aghast.
    Luck leaves when unlucky people speak

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