Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 45

Thread: Wind Ops

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    3,722
    Thanks
    414
    Thanked 790 Times in 572 Posts
    Alcohol, because no good story ever started with "I was eating this salad..."

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Diamond Geezer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    13,884
    Thanks
    2,576
    Thanked 4,128 Times in 2,052 Posts
    suny bay was on about this nearly three years ago, expect there will be opposition from trainers and owners

    http://www.talkinghorses.co.uk/forum...highlight=Wind

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    3,657
    Thanks
    742
    Thanked 900 Times in 590 Posts
    'Under a new BHA rule, British racecards from January 19 will show when a horse is having his or her first run since receiving treatment for a breathing-related issue.'

    Typically mealy-mouthed. Unless there's disclosure of the actual procedure undergone, it's meaningless.
    The older I get the better I was.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Diamond Geezer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    13,884
    Thanks
    2,576
    Thanked 4,128 Times in 2,052 Posts
    Kevin Blake a couple of years ago

    http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com...-of-the-breed/

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    3,657
    Thanks
    742
    Thanked 900 Times in 590 Posts
    If you're going to do it, it should be as per declarations at the sales, eg:
    http://www.goffsuk.com/sales-results...tember2017/146
    The older I get the better I was.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Newmarket, Suffolk
    Posts
    1,059
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 24 Times in 16 Posts
    Plenty they can do that's not so obvious on scope that might not get declared!
    You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    2,592
    Thanks
    246
    Thanked 446 Times in 318 Posts
    Will a make a difference to the odds of a horse? I don't think so.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Bangkok Thailand
    Posts
    11,099
    Thanks
    349
    Thanked 766 Times in 655 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    It probably will at first DJ, at least until punters realise it's not magic.

    Nicky Henderson is going to have to employ additional staff to do his reporting as most of his horses get 2 wind ops a week
    Formely Fist of Fury

  9. #9
    Super Moderator Diamond Geezer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    13,884
    Thanks
    2,576
    Thanked 4,128 Times in 2,052 Posts
    As I mentioned on suny's thread, Sprinter Sacre had seven

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    3,657
    Thanks
    742
    Thanked 900 Times in 590 Posts
    https://www.racingpost.com/news/news...ps-rule/309479

    So, 5 procedures are to be declared at entry time but the racecard will only refer to 'wind surgery'. All these procedures have different success rates so I'm not sure that this compromise is overly helpful.
    The older I get the better I was.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    863
    Thanks
    77
    Thanked 53 Times in 51 Posts
    I think its a first step and its good that they at least made it happen, they can improve it in the future by declaring the types of procedures etc.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,890
    Thanks
    21
    Thanked 137 Times in 90 Posts
    They are only going to show the WS mark the first race after the Operation. The majority of horses don't actually improve until the 2nd race as they get used to the fact that they can take on more oxy and run harder. As usual its ill thought out and badly implemented. We will now see the majority of mug punters just looking down a list for WS and back blindly. Only the bookies will benefit from this implementation. The call from some for horse racing weight is much more important.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    16,018
    Thanks
    1,467
    Thanked 1,553 Times in 1,112 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    I don't see the fuss, to be honest.

    If "most don't actually improve until the 2nd race back" you can take note of that fact, and stick it in a tracker for next-time. Better that than not knowing at all that it had a wind-op two starts back. In fact, if you have faith in your "2nd start back" assertion, you should welcome Wind Ops being declared, because it gives you an edge. On this basis, I cannot agree with your assertion that only the bookies will benefit from this implementation.

    The info is there to be used, or ignored - in exactly the manner as declarations of blinkers, hood, cheek-pieces and tongue-ties. Publish it, and let the individual decide whether he cares about it or not.

    In summary, stop laddering your fu*cking tights about it, you giant flamer.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 22nd November 2017 at 3:12 PM.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,890
    Thanks
    21
    Thanked 137 Times in 90 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    I don't see the fuss, to be honest.

    If "most don't actually improve until the 2nd race back" you can take note of that fact, and stick it in a tracker for next-time. Better that than not knowing at all that it had a wind-op two starts back. In fact, if you have faith in your "2nd start back" assertion, you should welcome Wind Ops being declared, because it gives you an edge. On this basis, I cannot agree with your assertion that only the bookies will benefit from this implementation.

    The info is there to be used, or ignored - in exactly the manner as declarations of blinkers, hood, cheek-pieces and tongue-ties. Publish it, and let the individual decide whether he cares about it or not.

    In summary, stop laddering your fu*cking tights about it, you giant flamer.

    Its none of your business what i do with my horse! ;-)

  15. #15
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    16,018
    Thanks
    1,467
    Thanked 1,553 Times in 1,112 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    You only need to worry about it when they start declaring 'Wanked-off by owner for luck" in the race-card
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,890
    Thanks
    21
    Thanked 137 Times in 90 Posts
    The easy answer of course is just just have a small number after WS 1 first race back 2nd etc. and its goes back to one when they have another.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    16,018
    Thanks
    1,467
    Thanked 1,553 Times in 1,112 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Not really practical if a horse has a single operation, and then goes on to have 46 subsequent starts.

    Mind you, it would be evident from a handful of near-term runs, whether the wind-op had worked the oracle. You would know after probably 2-3 runs, most likely, so maybe they only need show WS1, WS2, WS3 and then no further declarations, because by that stage, the wind-op would no longer be having a material effect?

    It could probably be optimised with a little more thought, but the main point still stands - the information has some intrinsic value; even if it's only to rule it out as irrelevant.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 22nd November 2017 at 4:11 PM.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

  18. #18
    Senior Member sunybay's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Madrid
    Posts
    4,184
    Thanks
    23
    Thanked 52 Times in 33 Posts
    This is good news
    this should have been done long time ago


    now he next step
    is the weight of the horses, as they do in japan

  19. #19
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Bangkok Thailand
    Posts
    11,099
    Thanks
    349
    Thanked 766 Times in 655 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    I watch Racing.com a lot which is Australian racing and there they declare when a trainer is going to change tactics eg a front runner is going to be held up..if they don't declare I assume they are fined
    Formely Fist of Fury

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    3,657
    Thanks
    742
    Thanked 900 Times in 590 Posts
    Proposals and comments from the A (archie) HA.

    Wind ops
    A reasonable idea in principle but this is a strange compromise solution. If we accept that all procedures are covered by the same blanket term, then surely the easiest way to keep the information is with the WS abbreviation followed by the date of the last procedure. If the horse has been purchased from abroad it's possible that this information may not be passed on and it wouldn't be fair to punish the new connections for this so there could be an exemption here but there's no reason not to record the procedure just because the horse hasn't run before.
    I'm still doubtful of the value of all this because of the wide range of conditions, procedures and success rates but it doesn't take much organising so I'm not against it.

    Weighing horses
    I'm assuming that this would either be done at declaration time or pre-race. Others would know better than me but do all small trainers have horse scales and is it fair to expect them to have them? If the weighing is done pre-race the information is known so late that it wouldn't help many punters.
    On a more general note, I can't see this being much use on the flat because horses are still growing for most of their careers so the optimum racing weight will be a moving target.

    Mares in foal
    I don't see a problem with declaring this especially as there's no cost involved. What I do see is people making wrong assumptions because you only hear about the mares in foal that win. I don't believe that there's been a proper study on this and my tame equine expert insists that there is no biochemical evidence that pregnancy makes a difference. While you hear some speculate that pregnancy enhances the survival/flight instinct I'm just not convinced. Kevin Blake wrote about this a couple of years ago:
    http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com...be-declared-2/

    Declaration of racing tactics
    A total nonsense.
    The older I get the better I was.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •