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Thread: The Road To The 2018 Champion Chase

  1. #21
    Senior Member Grey's Avatar
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    Thirdly, if we accept that Sizing John was being run over the wrong trip, Douvan has beaten...
    This is a crass and craven heresy, known as the Solwhit contention. It was given this name in reference to the futile attempts by unbelievers to denigrate the achievements of the great Hurricane Fly by questioning the merit of repeatedly handing out beatings to the same horse.

    That you of all people, one of the staunchest of upholders of the flag of Fly, should fall into such grave error truly shocks me.

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  3. #22
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Be nice to see him and SJ eye each other down again

    Like Rocky taking down Drago
    Some people say heís the best since Arkle and thatís certainly true when you look at what heís done

  4. #23
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    This is a crass and craven heresy, known as the Solwhit contention. It was given this name in reference to the futile attempts by unbelievers to denigrate the achievements of the great Hurricane Fly by questioning the merit of repeatedly handing out beatings to the same horse.

    That you of all people, one of the staunchest of upholders of the flag of Fly, should fall into such grave error truly shocks me.
    Art, I can only imagine that - in your state of shock - you neglected to read the sentence which followed:

    "I do not mention this to run Douvan down - principally because he hammered all those horses out of sight - and his level of form when fit is clear to anyone. I mention it only to expose the flaw in your argument that Altior only beat experienced Grade 1 horses, because they 'weren't ready'........and then extrapolating that, to take the view that Douvan would beat Altior "with ease". "

    Indeed, it is Tanlic's oblique use of the 'Solwhit Contention' which I was attempting to expose.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 10th November 2017 at 1:23 PM.
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  5. #24
    Senior Member Grey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    Art, I can only imagine that - in your state of shock - you neglected to read the sentence which followed:

    "I do not mention this to run Douvan down - principally because he hammered all those horses out of sight - and his level of form when fit is clear to anyone. I mention it only to expose the flaw in your argument that Altior only beat experienced Grade 1 horses, because they 'weren't ready'........and then extrapolating that, to take the view that Douvan would beat Altior "with ease". "

    Indeed, it is Tanlic's oblique use of the 'Solwhit Contention' which I was attempting to expose.
    The smelling salts are starting to kick in but I am still reeling

  6. #25
    Senior Member Grey's Avatar
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    Arguably Douvan did Sizing John a favour by beating him five times because otherwise he might never have been moved up in trip, given that for a season or two he would have been the best around at 2m.

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    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    I don't doubt it for a minute.

    I reckon Sizing John is somewhat in the Kicking King mould: high-class at 2m, and top-class at 3m2f........with 3m as his optimum trip (again, top-class).
    Spouting shite on here since 2006.

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    He's owned by the Potts'. They'd surely have tried him at 3m at some point, and probably again and again every so often even if he didn't stay the first (few) time(s).

    It's the fact that he does stay which should keep Fox Norton at the intermediate trip - for now, although even he's being considered for Kempton.
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  9. #28
    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    Arguably Douvan did Sizing John a favour by beating him five times because otherwise he might never have been moved up in trip, given that for a season or two he would have been the best around at 2m.
    SJ would have finished behind Vaniteux in the Arkle had he not blundered. SJ had to move up in trip.
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

  10. #29
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    I'm mellowing to Potts of late - he's not one to cotton wool his horses
    Some people say heís the best since Arkle and thatís certainly true when you look at what heís done

  11. #30
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    I've nothing against him either really and FWIW I'm all for 2 milers gradually moving up in trip in the mould of Kauto Star. My point was that SJ would have gone up in trip regardless of Douvan.

    Plus it's nice to see competition to Giggi and to a lesser extent Ricci.
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  12. #31
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    Great Field reminds be so much of Un De Sceaux in terms of choke out ability at the same stage of development, so I was just having a think about this race from Mullins perspective. At the same stage with UDS Mullins skipped the Festival, and I have a feeling he might do the same with GF given what he can fire at the race anyway.

    Thoughts?

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    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Of the 3 GF appears the most limited in terms of trip.2m is his trip and am sure Barry won't be sitting idly by and not be on his bosses best 2m come March.
    Some people say heís the best since Arkle and thatís certainly true when you look at what heís done

  14. #33
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    One of hilly way, John durkan or Tingle Creek for Douvan according to WPM

    wont be Sandown anyway
    Some people say heís the best since Arkle and thatís certainly true when you look at what heís done

  15. #34
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Willie Mullins is maintaining a trio of options for the return to action of his unbeaten star Douvan.

    The Closutton supremo has the Tingle Creek Chase at Sandown along with Punchestown's John Durkan Memoria Chase and the Hilly Way Chase at Cork on his radar.


    That was taken from an article 12 months ago...Ring a bell?
    Formely Fist of Fury

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    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Good to see he has stuck to the same logic

    I'd make it

    1/2 Cork

    11/10 Punch

    4/1 - Sandown
    Some people say heís the best since Arkle and thatís certainly true when you look at what heís done

  17. #36
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maruco View Post
    Great Field reminds be so much of Un De Sceaux in terms of choke out ability at the same stage of development, so I was just having a think about this race from Mullins perspective. At the same stage with UDS Mullins skipped the Festival, and I have a feeling he might do the same with GF given what he can fire at the race anyway.

    Thoughts?
    GF was PU’d in his only a Chelts outing in the Country, though he propped badly at one of the hurdles, and that pretty-much did for his race. However, I don’t think connections would have any concerns about running him there again. Also, as granger points out, hard to imagine McManus not wanting to have a go with him.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 13th November 2017 at 11:58 AM.
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  18. #37
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    I wonder if a match race between Douvan & SJ would be on the cards.

  19. #38
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LUKE View Post
    I wonder if a match race between Douvan & SJ would be on the cards.
    Everyone knows where SJ is gonna be..
    Some people say heís the best since Arkle and thatís certainly true when you look at what heís done

  20. #39
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Try 100/1 the Tingle Creek.........Here's the script if Min really sparkles over 2 miles Douvan will go to the King george if not he'll stay at 2 miles but no way will he take on Altior first time up...that would be nuts
    Formely Fist of Fury

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    GF was PU’d in his only a Chelts outing in the Country, though he propped badly at one of the hurdles, and that pretty-much did for his race. However, I don’t think connections would have any concerns about running him there again. Also, as granger points out, hard to imagine McManus not wanting to have a go with him.
    I hope not, because I'm on as well as you know. I do however reckon JP would be more than happy to listen to Willie if that was his view though. As I said, the similarities between the two of them at the same stage are remarkable, so there must be every possibility that Willie would take the same view that Cheltenham is a season too early when he has so many other options. Essentially I'm flagging that the Festival may not be a certainty if Willie is consitent.

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