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Thread: The Road To The 2018 Champion Chase

  1. #221
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    He won't according to the RP. UDS for Cork and Djakadam for the Durkan.

    As a matter of interest, are we seriously suggesting that, having not been happy with this morning's work, Douvan should have been sent over to run anyway? Suppose that had happened, he'd run poorly and then the work story came out. The usual suspects would have been in meltdown.
    The older I get the better I was.

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  3. #222
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    I'm not suggesting that at all, myself.

    If he has disappointed, he has disappointed, and it would be self-defeating to rush him back.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

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  5. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    Anyone who feels tucked up is a muppet who doesn't learn from history.

    Douvan's trainer Willie Mullins said on Thursday: "Douvan worked very well at the Curragh on Tuesday. He cantered yesterday. He did another little bit early this morning and I wasn't entirely happy with him.
    "Maybe he hadn't fully recovered from what he did on Tuesday and I decided not to declare him for Sandown. No decision has been made regarding when he will have his first run of the season."

    Agree 100%.

  6. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardross View Post
    The other thing I am afraid is that betting exchanges can make leaking information from a racing yard a very lucrative business nowadays . For the layer whose fingers were burned by laying Binocular at 999-1 there are lots who have made money on the basis of what is in substance fraud - laying a horse you know is not running or you have information that means it is very likely not running .

    I think the likelihood of Mullins deliberately misleading is very unlikely . In his interview on ATR about running plans he was very clear that none of the pans were set in stone and could change.

    You should know better-were the punters who laid Binocular and Kicking King guilty of fraud or only the ones that laid losers.

  7. #225
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    Horses go wrong all the time, sometimes all of a sudden.
    The question is when and how the information gets out : remember the great JP Mcmanus/ jack Of Trumps story with 1979 Gold Cup ?
    He knew fav Gay Spartan was injured early Saturday before the bookies/public so doubled his JoT bet anly to be JoT was out after the same day.
    Nijinsky suffered a mild colic the day before Epsom Derby and Golden Fleece coughed; Bregadier Gerard's lad was instructed not to let drop his head until away from public eyes at York when beaten as his windpipe was full of mucus and phlegm; the list goes on.
    With technology now everything is more instant but horses can disappoint for all kinds of reasons .
    To make matters worse, you can bet as well as lay and trainers and jockeys are writing blogs for bookies, newspapers and everyone else on an "exclusive " basis.
    I am too old and too tired to even try suggesting a remedy but it involves an off course tote monopoly , caveat emptor ante post betting and a ban on exchanges. Punditry to be confined to retired jockeys and trainers who are more likely to need the money than current players.
    Last edited by edgt; 7th December 2017 at 11:12 PM.

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  9. #226
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    Great post, Ed. All the wisdom, and humble to boot.

    Bravo.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

  10. #227
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    Exchanges and bookies should be required to cancel the bets struck on a race in the 24 hours before the likes of a Douvan or an Altior are announced as non-runners. This would only happen on the say-so of an independent betting commissioner who would have access to betting records to decide whether insider trading had been taking place.

  11. #228
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    The Willie "Hillary Clinton" Mullins trained Douvan will now run at Xmas. The year was not mentioned.

    As true as it is about trainers don't know until the last min if a horse is 100% to run or not simply does not apply here so why the hell are people bringing it up?

    Mullins clearly stated the horse did a fantastic piece of work on Tuesday but within hours the horse started to drift on the machine.

    So let me get this straight. Those who witnessed this piece of work thought "Geez look at him go he's absolutely flying lets go lay him on Betfair"



    As I said earlier the racing media won't ask the obvious because they are **** scared of Mullins boycotting them so like Hilary he gets a pass.

    Bog all the poor punters who lost Thousands due to his failure to let people know as soon as possible, not when he had one foot on the fookin ferry.
    Last edited by Tanlic; 8th December 2017 at 3:26 AM.
    Formely Fist of Fury

  12. #229
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    Douvan's trainer Willie Mullins said on Thursday: "Douvan worked very well at the Curragh on Tuesday. He cantered yesterday. He did another little bit early this morning and I wasn't entirely happy with him.
    "Maybe he hadn't fully recovered from what he did on Tuesday and I decided not to declare him for Sandown. No decision has been made regarding when he will have his first run of the season."[/QUOTE]

    This doesn't quite add up, Douvan worked well on Tuesday, trainer wasn't happy with him on Thursday so didn't enter him.
    The drift on the machine happened on Wednesday?

    From a punting point of view I'm happy, post #175 on this thread said I was on the Fox @2/1.
    But you can see why the public feel misled. I'd imagine a few people probably bought tickets for the weekend purely on the basis that they would see Douvan too.
    Last edited by tiggers1972; 8th December 2017 at 9:06 AM.

  13. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    Exchanges and bookies should be required to cancel the bets struck on a race in the 24 hours before the likes of a Douvan or an Altior are announced as non-runners. This would only happen on the say-so of an independent betting commissioner who would have access to betting records to decide whether insider trading had been taking place.
    A similar version for this came in Lydia Hislop first Road to Cheltenham article for the season, I think most have missed this bit:

    Perhaps via revisiting and tightening its existing (much relaxed) rules governing commercial relationships with its constituents, the BHA should require the timely announcement of important, market-sensitive news via an automated reporting system – maybe even one linked to Twitter? (In the old days, you’d use the Press Association but I gather that’s a bit pre-Millennial these days…)

    This agreement would need to be extended to include owners, who are not currently licensed but for whom certain behaviours come under the jurisdiction of the BHA nonetheless. Under the terms of these rules, the owner’s right to know would remain primary but the prompt dissemination of “important” information would over-ride any commercial agreement in the first instance.

    “Important” is going to require some guidance but it’s clearly not “he worked well on Wednesday” or even “he worked disappointingly on Wednesday” but rather pertaining to stone-cold, market-altering facts.

    In tandem with the above, the BHA should also ask the Association of British Bookmakers and the Remote Gambling Association to establish an industry standard requiring all money traded to be refunded in all relevant markets from the time of the first alert until the time those market(s) are re-formed.

  14. #231
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    Remember the 2011/2012 when Hurricane Fly missed all engagements before Irish Champion Hurdle and WPM refused to be drawn on any reason why he did not run, point blank refusing to speak about the horse ?
    The Fly then won Irish Champion very easily before Rock On Ruby beat him at Festival.
    Shades of the same here perhaps.
    Not sure if I posted this last year but on entering parade ring for Hilly Way Chase last year Douvan, ears back, stopped dead and for a few seconds did not move, refusing to enter . It may have been nothing but I did not like seeing it at the time.
    We can put too much emphasis on these little things but attention to detail is a facet of all trainers.
    WPM was not there that day, Punchestown being the main meeting.
    Among my blogs is "Stand By Douvan " ; a Country and Western ditty composed by Brownie Guinan, The Bard of Ferbane. Enjoy.
    Last edited by edgt; 10th December 2017 at 6:42 PM.

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  16. #232
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Here's an interesting fact: Charbel and San Benedeto finished almost identical distances behind Altior as they did Politologue.

    I am still not convince Altior is anywhere near as special as his army of fans think.
    Formely Fist of Fury

  17. #233
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    The BHA’s rules on laying by owners state; that it is an offence for any owner, to lay any horse he owns with a Betting Organisation to lose a race, instruct another person to do so on his behalf or receive the whole or part of any proceeds of such a lay.

    But the rules also make it clear that; Should anyone wish to do so, on a grand scale, a scale that would benefit extremely greedy investors, then all they have to do is, join an organization such as Betbright, and reap reward from the profits of such an organization in the ordinary course of that Betting Organisation’s everyday business.
    Last edited by Maxbet; 10th December 2017 at 7:28 AM.

  18. #234
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    Douvan out for the season

  19. #235
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    A great pity

  20. #236
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    Very much so, Art.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

  21. #237
    Senior Member tiggers1972's Avatar
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    Whats the problem?

  22. #238
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    Has any bookie priced-up the amount of runners that wll actually run in the Champion Chase? How about...

    1 runner 12/1
    2 runners 13/2
    3 runners 11/2
    4 runners 7/2
    5 runners 9/4
    6 runners 11/4
    7 runners or more 14/1

    What's the phantom value in this market then, lads?
    Last edited by Marble; 17th December 2017 at 8:06 PM.

  23. #239
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    They remain not happy with him . Perhaps the first time they have highly tried him he has gone backwards and has not handled it .

  24. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesRB View Post
    Douvan out for the season
    Feck. Shame for us all with racing being the loser. That will see some reshuffling of the decks.

    These brilliant French horses have a relatively short shelf life.

    Shows you the horse in a million Kauto was.
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

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