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Thread: Chasers & Hurdlers 2016/2017

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    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Chasers & Hurdlers 2016/2017

    Chasers
    Douvan 182
    Altior 175p
    Cue Card 174
    Thistlecrack 174
    Great Field 170p (Same as the Gold Cup winner? Can't have it at all)
    Fox Norton 170
    Sizing John 170
    Djakadam 169
    Many Clouds 169
    Un De Sceaux 169
    Coneygree 168
    Menorah 168


    Hurdlers
    Buveur d'Air 170
    Camping Ground 166
    Nicholls Canyon 165
    Unowhatimeanharry 165
    Yanworth 164
    Arctic Fire 163
    My tent Or Yours 163
    Lil Rockerfeller 162
    Petit Mouchoir 162
    Ptiz Zig 161
    Alex de Larrayda 160
    Diakali 160


    Other notables
    Defi Du Seuil 151p
    Labaik 160$
    Bacardys 155p
    Finians Oscar 155
    Our Duke 167p
    Might Bite 166
    Yorkhill 161p
    Min 160P
    Coney Island 159p
    Fayonagh 118


    Others on request, as always.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 3rd October 2017 at 1:40 PM.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

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    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Camping Ground higher rate than UKWIMH..That stopped me right in my tracks

    Just goes to show that to some people if it says Group 2 then automatically u get bumped up even if you beat 2 dogs and a pregnant donkey
    Formely Fist of Fury

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    There's usually a few ratings I would quibble with, and much as I love Great Field, it takes an extreme interpretation of his form, to have him rated as high as the Gold Cup winner. I'm not as jazzed as some about last season's Gold Cup form (hence my strong advocacy of Our Duke, and to a lesser extent Might Bite, for this season's race), but it's more GF's rating that I have the problem with.

    Whilst it's true that he easily beat horses who went on to win competitive spring handicaps, Timeform appear to have taken a fairly literal interpretation of that form, to derive his mark. It seems an overly-generous award to me - or should I say, it's difficult to argue convincingly that it's accurate.

    All that said, having taken plenty of 25/1 for the Champion Chase, I sincerely hope they are right!
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 3rd October 2017 at 12:39 PM.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

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    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    This is the post I live for every year

    NH Season, let's be having you!!

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    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

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    What's the take on Charlie Parcs Grassy?
    Formely Fist of Fury

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    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Charlie Parcs: h144

    There's no essay. It only states 'Useful looking gelding', followed by a brief breeding synopsis, and a run-through of his races - oddly though, none of his 2017 outings warrant a mention (neither his fall at Kempton nor his Triumph run), and neither do his future prospects. It's almost like they got half-way through it, and then forgot to finish it.

    I think they have Defi's rating quite low at 151p, which would hold CP's down, and he might be an attractive prospect in a handicap, off a similar mark. The race that Brain Power won last year, for example, might become a target, as I think connections will want to see what they've got on their hands, before considering a switch to fences.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 4th October 2017 at 11:46 AM.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

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    Re Triumph: Katchit was one of the few rare winners of the race who went on to win the Champion and only Our Conor and Peace and Co were touted as possible winners recently.

    Do you know how Defi's 151p C & H rating compares to any of theirs.

    I would have thought the reason he is lower than you would expect is because of the aforementioned lack of success
    Formely Fist of Fury

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    Defi and Katchit were awarded the same rating (151) in the respective C&H volumes.

    Timeform highlight the breeding and physical differences between the pair (Katchit Flat-bred and small, Defi from French-Jumps stock, and robust in physique), and suggest DDS will likely need to improve a bit more than Katchit did (12lbs), to win the next season's Champion Hurdle...though they counter that by saying that Defi has a lot more scope to improve (hence the 'p'), than Katchit seemed to have after his 4yo season.

    They further suggest that connections might choose to go chasing with the "strong travelling" Defi Du Seuil "given that his owner already has the reigning Champion Hurdler".....though that does seem to have been ruled-out - for the time being at least.

    For a point of reference, the ill-fated Our Conor was rated 165P and Peace & Co was rated at 160P, following their juvenile seasons. Neither horse won a hurdle-race in open company thereafter.

    I expect the laughably-high rating for Peace & Co, probably has something to do with the circumspection around Defi Du Seuil's somewhat mean-looking number.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 4th October 2017 at 9:07 AM.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

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    At your pleasure Grass

    Any Second Now
    Sutton Place
    Alto Esqua
    Apple's Jade
    Bacardys
    Monalee
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

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    What do they give the Storyteller from Elliots assuming he is still with us.

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    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Here you go, granger:


    Any Second Now: h138p
    Sutton Place: h160
    Alto Esqua: No Rating
    Apple's Jade: h158
    Bacardys: h155p
    Monalee: h149

    The
    no rating for Alto Esqua looks like an(other) potential oversight, given he ran once in Ireland last season (December 2016). I have tweeted Timeform to ask about this and the apparently incomplete Charli Parcs entry.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 4th October 2017 at 11:46 AM.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

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    Quote Originally Posted by frontrunner View Post
    What do they give the Storyteller from Elliots assuming he is still with us.
    The Storyteller: h144p
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

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    Super Moderator Diamond Geezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    Here you go, granger:


    Any Second Now: h138p
    Sutton Place: h160
    Alto Esqua: No Rating
    Apple's Jade: h158
    Bacardys: h155p
    Monalee: h149

    The
    no rating for Alto Esqua looks like an(other) potential oversight, given he ran once in Ireland last season (December 2016). I have tweeted Timeform to ask about this and the apparently incomplete Charli Parcs entry.
    I see TF has given their reasons on your Twitter feed Grassy

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    Thanks Grass - 2 handbrake jobs in my selection
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

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    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Geezer View Post
    I see TF has given their reasons on your Twitter feed Grassy
    For the record, Timeform's responses were as follows:

    Charli Parcs
    His form when falling and when beaten in Triumph not as good as from December 2016 at Kempton - inference being it therefore didn't warrant a mention. Space pressures applicable.

    Alto Esqua
    Horses who ran exclusively in Ireland, are only included if rated 130+ ("AE just falls short")
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 4th October 2017 at 2:47 PM.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

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    Senior Member Perpetual's Avatar
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    What about Politologue Grass?

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    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perpetual View Post
    What about Politologue Grass?

    c153, Perp - no essay.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

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    My copy has been delivered to a neighbour and they've not been in the last day or so. Me mad

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    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Nae luck, Euro!
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

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    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    A bit more for you, granger:


    Any Second Now: h138p
    Useful form over hurdles. Bred to stay at least 20f, remains open to improvement.

    Sutton Place: h160
    Bumper winner. Smart form over hurdles. Stays 21f, acts on Soft.

    Apple's Jade: h158
    Tall, unfurnished mare. 20f suits better than 16f (related to several decent stayers e.g. Bristol De Mai). Acts on heavy, races prominently. Good jumper.

    Bacardys: h155p
    Angular gelding. Looks sure to stay a good deal further than 20f, when sent over fences. Well bred (out of Robin Des Champs mare, and related to Vautour and Quevega).

    Monalee: h149
    Tall gelding. Smart form over hurdles. Stays 3m, acts on Heavy, and often travels strongly.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 5th October 2017 at 9:06 AM.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

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