2018 Gold Cuppin'

[Danny]

[Grey]

The handicapper dropped quite a few horses for their Hennessy/Ladbroke runs and I think only Total Recall and Whisper went up after it, so maybe it's not surprising only the winner and the third have done anything to frank the form since.

[Tanlic]

I disagree, Danny. I don't think it's all that great a Gold Cup, and in terms of standard, it's probably not that much better than the King George.



Whisper's huge run under top-weight in the Hennessy, is off-the-scale more relevant to stamina for a Gold Cup, than his outings in the Stayers Hurdle.

I've no idea what the last sentence actually means. Cheltenham is a left-handed track?

That's the sort of nonsense that puts punters away day after day.

Whisper has been around a long time and he's a very nice horse but he is way way short of top class.

He beat GMOH at the festival but when faced with topnotchers as danny rightly point out he was exposed again as short of top class.

He would again have been beaten out of sight in the RSA........so what? that's nothing new

Now we come to the Hennessy and he gives a stone to Total Recall and gets beat...........does that make him top class? I hardly think so...not even remotely so..............It was a dog race and old Regal Encore filled 3rd place 66/1 33/1 no hopers all the way back.

This is Call Me Lord stuff......beats a bunch om monkeys and suddenly he's CH or GC material.



Might Bite has achieved less than Sizing John and Native River and that is the truth of the matter and all this certainty stuff is BS...........He's not a Big Bucks Faugheen or Sprinter Sacre he ordinary in comparison and come March you will eat your words

pS you better hope it's not a better race than the King George or your horse is in trouble

[Grasshopper]

Whisper has won two Aintree Stayers Hurdles.

Short of top-class my hairy hole, you muppet.

[Kauto Abu]

Is it lost on you that Native River got beaten into second by Minella Rocco in last years Gold Cup. A horse who prior to that, when he actually stood up right, finished 3rd to Viconte Du Noyer & Warrantor!!


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[TheBear]

To suggest it’s not much better than the KG is stretching the truth a little Grassy. BDM is only top class around one track, Thistlecrack was gone and the rest were either untested at the distance or horses short of top class. If you’d struck that ante post bet on the GC rather than the KG I guarantee you’d be sweating a lot more over it.

The crabbing of Minella Rocco is also a little on the blinkered side. I’d love to see either of those two you mentioned get the better of Djakadam around Cheltenham. In fact you’ll find one of them about 300 lengths behind MR in the NH Chase, a race which went on to throw up loads of winners. It’s not his fault that he’s trained by a man who can only peak a horse once a year if he’s lucky.


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[Kauto Abu]

Last years gold cup is looking a poor renewal to be perfectly honest. People crabbed last years champion hurdle as a poor renewal but in hindsight it looks a very good renewal with a superstar emerging. Every horse in that race has won again since and most of them in good graded races over hurdles or as chasers.

The Gold Cup looks a lot poorer now. Take the 1st 6 home, separated by only 10L. Only Sizing John and Native River have won again since. Add into the mix that More Of That got within 10L of Sizing John and you see it wasn’t vintage, not even near it.

Might Bite could really give this lot a thrashing.


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[Grasshopper]

To suggest it’s not much better than the KG is stretching the truth a little Grassy. BDM is only top class around one track, Thistlecrack was gone and the rest were either untested at the distance or horses short of top class. If you’d struck that ante post bet on the GC rather than the KG I guarantee you’d be sweating a lot more over it.

The crabbing of Minella Rocco is also a little on the blinkered side. I’d love to see either of those two you mentioned get the better of Djakadam around Cheltenham. In fact you’ll find one of them about 300 lengths behind MR in the NH Chase, a race which went on to throw up loads of winners. It’s not his fault that he’s trained by a man who can only peak a horse once a year if he’s lucky.


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I don't agree, TheBear.

Danny's claim was "The Gold Cup will be the hardest race he's (The Biter) ever been in by quite some way". I still dispute that claim, and I stand behind the statement that it's not that much better than the King George.

MB clearly has the beating of all the UK horses, with the possible exception of Native River - and that's only because they've never met each other yet. And you could maybe extend it to Minella Rocco at a stretch, for the same reason......otherwise, there's not a 3m chaser trained here that you could say is better than those he faced at Kempton.

As far as the Irish challenge is concerned, I fail to see how it is stronger this year than last.

Sizing John looked a pale shadow of last season's horse over Christmas, and has been subject to negative reports since. Our Duke's physical problems are well documented, as are his jumping deficiencies, and - Road to Respect apart - the remainder are G1 horses in name only (imo), as they are largely exposed and/or inconsistent, have been beating each other in turn, and/or finishing in a heap when the principals have failed to run their race.

To me, it's a poor Gold Cup relatively speaking, with a handful of runners you would be worried about actually giving their running.

If any horses are going to rattle The Biter's cage, it will be Road To Respect, Native River and Our Duke - probably in that order - unless Sizing John makes a Lazarus-like comeback..........and even then, I'd fancy The Biter to serve it right up to him. But if SJ doesn't run to form, it's a poor-looking edition, and I would be surprised if MB didn't have the tools to win it comfortably.

[Double Handful]

Loving the unshakable confidence on the Biter, Nick. As you know I'm heavily invested myself, but I'm not quite as bullish as yourself.

I've Been looking at who to potentially cover with and for forecast/tricast bets. I keep coming back to Killultagh Vic. Has the back form - Spring and festival form (new course too). Beat thistle crack over 3m hurdles as TC was entering his prime year. Looked the winner all over at Leopardstown until falling. Probably still not fully exposed over fences. Stays the trip (imo).

Fall lto is the only negative really imo. Just see a lot more upside and potential in him than a lot of other runners. Have you a strong view either way on KV yourself?

[TheBear]

You make some good points but I still don't agree.

As I didn't back him In the King George and haven't backed him for the Gold Cup I can say from a neutral standpoint that I had him as a much stronger favourite for the King George. I had a small poke on Fox Norton simply because he was unexposed at the trip and I'd missed the fancy prices on Might Bite. He looked to have all the credentials for that race and there were big question marks about his closest market rivals. It makes even worse reading in hindsight.

Just as a match race with the 2nd fav I'd be far more concerned of Native River getting the better of him around Cheltenham than I would BDM around Kempton (easy to say now maybe)

Then there's those you've listed who are all unexposed and could literally be anything (I'd add Killultagh Vic to that list). Who could you say that about in the King George? I think it says everything that he's only likely to face two of the opponents from the KG and they're 40 & 66/1.

Add in the Cheltenham quirk and it adds up to his toughest test by a long chalk.

[Grasshopper]

I don’t think there are any genuinely unexposed Irish chasers heading to the Gold Cup.

I think they’re all pretty-much open books, and the only exceptions I might possibly make are for RTR and KV.....and even then, I think the former is probably nearing the end of his improvement, and the latter is too accident prone to give me undue cause for concern.

The fact that KV was nearly able to win the IGC after a two year absence in steeplechases, with the race eventually won by the chasing equivalent of Marty Hopkirk (one for the oldies there), tells me all I need to know about the quality of the race and the Irish challenge for the Gold Cup.

Might Bite’s quirks at Cheltenham have no bearing on the test he faces - they’re relevant only to his own performance.

Only three weeks until we find out who is talking the most shi*te.

[TheBear]

It's not a patch on Don Cossack's year! (the shite talking I mean)

[Grasshopper]

Vautour would have handed the Don his arse on a plate.

[Frankel]

Vautour would have handed the Don his arse on a plate.

I could have handed Poli his arse.

The real Don, no chance son

[edgt]

Might Bite reminds me of Pendil, who managed to lose two Gold Cups he was the best horse in.
He has himself to beat as said here before.

[Tanlic]

Is it lost on you that Native River got beaten into second by Minella Rocco in last years Gold Cup. A horse who prior to that, when he actually stood up right, finished 3rd to Viconte Du Noyer & Warrantor!!


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Colin Tizzard had no idea he has a possible Gold Cup horse in his hands until after winning 2 extremely tough races in the Hennessy and the W National. He was a mere 7 years old yet to reach his prime and has more right to improve than any other horse is the race.

Rocco isa festival winner like your Might Bite is he beat Native River in the 4 miler obviously you have forgotten that. He is a very very good horse on his day and like many others Jonjo aimed to have spot on for one big day and he did exactly that. He's won big races at Cheltenham for years with horses who have shown nothing for months and underestimating him is nuts to be frank.


To me this is not a great Gold Cup it would not be on a par with the Burrough Hill Lad Jodami Forgive N Forget type race but more like The Thinker Cool Dawn See More Business where the best stayer wins the day and to me if Native River has improved he will come out on top.

[Tanlic]

Vautour would have handed the Don his arse on a plate.

In a Gold Cup?

You just won the prelims for talking the most shite

[Kauto Abu]

Colin Tizzard had no idea he has a possible Gold Cup horse in his hands until after winning 2 extremely tough races in the Hennessy and the W National. He was a mere 7 years old yet to reach his prime and has more right to improve than any other horse is the race.

Rocco isa festival winner like your Might Bite is he beat Native River in the 4 miler obviously you have forgotten that. He is a very very good horse on his day and like many others Jonjo aimed to have spot on for one big day and he did exactly that. He's won big races at Cheltenham for years with horses who have shown nothing for months and underestimating him is nuts to be frank.

Tizzard is on record as saying the horse had the Gold Cup as his target in the winners enclosure immediately after the Hennessey so he did know the Gold Cup was his target and his training mirrored that.

https://www.google.ie/amp/www.dailym...h-Newbury.html


And if we’re bringing in the 4miler into play, Mother of God. They’re the type of trips Rocco needs. It just shows you how bad last years renewal was when a boat like him could get second.

What about Synchronised, Jonjo’s last horse to win a Gold Cup. He won a Lexus on the way to his Gold Cup. I really don’t think the plan with Minella Rocco is to leave him short in his races so that he makes mistakes causing tired falls. He is generally out classed in these grade ones but could still manage second in last years Gold Cup. It was a poor renewal and it’s as clear as day to see that now.


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[Grasshopper]

In a Gold Cup?

You just won the prelims for talking the most shite

We'll never know, thanks to baldly-boy banker-wanker.

[granger]

If our Duke gets to the last on terms (thats his challenge) nothing will beat him up the hill

It must say something of SJ that Power is riding him.

Not like Potts is gonna jock him off