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Thread: 2018 Gold Cuppin'

  1. #661
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    Quote Originally Posted by granger View Post
    Yesterday was the day my Disko Fever ended

    Every year the fcukers spanner me
    Did you sing" I will Survive" in response to the disko news ?

  2. #662
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    I really dislike Colin Tizzard for some reason. Taking Paddy off Cue Card didn't help.

    Looks as if he is trying to justify running him again in the Racing Post article as he knows racing fans will be displeased

    Of course he has very little chance of winning another Grade 1 especially not the Gold Cup which Tizzard is aiming him at which some would say is madness..even cruel

    However when you look at it from a business point of view why would you retire him?

    As long as he still enjoys the day out does it really matter of he trails in a well beaten 2nd?.

    The last race he ran in he got totally stuffed and for that stuffing picked up 45k for finishing 2nd

    We may not agree with it but I'd take bets he turns up at Haydock again next year as long as he has four working legs
    Formely Fist of Fury

  3. #663
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    If you are trying to screw place-money out of a 12yo who owes you nothing, and who put you on the map when he was a 4yo, you aren’t a business-man - you’re a cu*nt.

    Cue Card is a pale, pale shadow of the champion we once knew, and wants retiring, before all we remember is how badly he was treated towards the end of his career.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

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  5. #664
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    If you are trying to screw place-money out of a 12yo who owes you nothing, and who put you on the map when he was a 4yo, you aren’t a business-man - you’re a cu*nt.
    Literally think that is the perfect summary.
    Man who catch fly with chopstick .... accomplish anything.

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    12yo for a jumper is not that old. They should all be running at this age if healthy. Going out on a high, winning perhaps his final race before retirement would be a dream for many not only his connections, but trying that feat doesn't take anything away from his old accomplishments. This expression 'doesn't owe anything to anyone' is such a shitty way of saying you're a big loser and give up on a horse that gave you so much, basically taking away his life as a professional athlete because you(the trainer/owner) are afraid of losing.

  7. #666
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aughex View Post
    12yo for a jumper is not that old.
    Tosh
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

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    I knew sprinters that ran as 14yo's, they were leading the youngsters every morning at Milton Bradley yard, I'll let you guess who that was.. Horses love racing and training, taking that away mid-season is the stupid thing to do, if the horse is fine and healthy. How great was that Kauto Star still ran as a 12 yo and won the KG and attempted to win the GC.. he failed, oh no Nicholls is such a terrible person. Bunch of chumps the owners/trainers that use that phrase 'owe anything to anyone', not that Tizzard used it but if he had for Cue Card with the horse being totally healthy and ready for racing.

  9. #668
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    I don't like the idea of forcing horses to race beyond their point of steep decline unless the horse is giving every indication at home of enjoying the training regime and going racing.

    The people best placed to judge that are those most closely connected to the horse. I think we need to trust them to do the right thing by the horse, as Jeremy Scott & co did recently with Melodic Rendezvous.
    Illegitimi non carborundum


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    But DO, they might think the horse will have a chance of winning at the festival, he's giving the right signs and lets say he will run badly. By Grass judgement we'll think of Tizzard as a horrible trainer for trying? Thats the point I was making, some horses at 12yo are not that old, especially in jump racing where losing the speed with age is not a issue. Thats why they introduced those veteran races if they are fit they have a choice to go for them, obviously the ones less talented than Cue Card..

  11. #670
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aughex View Post
    But DO, they might think the horse will have a chance of winning at the festival, he's giving the right signs and lets say he will run badly. By Grass judgement we'll think of Tizzard as a horrible trainer for trying? Thats the point I was making, some horses at 12yo are not that old, especially in jump racing where losing the speed with age is not a issue. Thats why they introduced those veteran races if they are fit they have a choice to go for them, obviously the ones less talented than Cue Card..
    Yes, I was agreeing with you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aughex View Post
    But DO, they might think the horse will have a chance of winning at the festival, he's giving the right signs and lets say he will run badly. By Grass judgement we'll think of Tizzard as a horrible trainer for trying? Thats the point I was making, some horses at 12yo are not that old, especially in jump racing where losing the speed with age is not a issue. Thats why they introduced those veteran races if they are fit they have a choice to go for them, obviously the ones less talented than Cue Card..
    Cue Card - when he actually completes - is operating at a level which is getting on for 2-stone below his best.

    Tizzard is the worst person to judge whether or not the horse should be retired, because he is blinkered about him. Prior to every race for the last two seasons, he has told all-and-sundry that the horse was still in the form of his life, only for it to be followed by abject failure on the racecourse. He cannot - or will not - accept that the horse is a shadow of former glories.

    He has absolutely no chance of winning a meaningful race at this late stage in his career, and as for his age, you (Aughex) are talking complete bollocks. The anount of G1 winners who were still able to operate at that level as 12yos, can be counted on the fingers of zero-hands.

    This horse has fallen in half of his chases in the last two seasons, and had the arse (and probably heart) pulled out of him at Haydock. I sincerely hope that those advocating a final, pointless, hurrah, don’t end-up lamenting their support, should the horse be seriously-injured (or worse) by being run in a grade which he is patently no longer good enough to operate at.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

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  14. #672
    Senior Member Euronymous's Avatar
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    Agree. If Coney Island comes over for the Ascot race he'd be facing that horse, Top Notch and Waiting Patiently. Meaning he has no chance.

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    Lotta people said Ryan Price was mad for running What a Myth in the Gold Cup who was also running way below his previous mark.

    It depends on the horse Kauto was 4 days off of 12 when setting a record that will never be broken loads of 11 year olds have won major races Sonny Summers was winning at 15 years old.

    I don't like Tizzard but I am not going to be as stupid as to say I know better than him......he lives with the horse and he's run way below form many times in the past and bounced back...........so Grassy you are entitled to your opinion but frankly you don't have a clue of how the horse is and neither do I
    Formely Fist of Fury

  16. #674
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    The evidence from the racecourse is all I need. The horse is a goner.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

  17. #675
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    It saddened me so much to see Moscow go a few races too many.

    Cue Card is a shadow of himself. Let bygones be bygones and a happy retirement beckons.
    Last edited by granger; 20th January 2018 at 6:55 PM.
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  18. #676
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    At the moment Anibale Fly, Minella Rocco and Edwulf will run at Leopardstown and while there’s nothing written in stone Coney Island is likely to go to Ascot,” Berry said.
    Anibale Fly is as low as 7-1 for the Leopardstown contest after his impressive Paddy Power Chase victory over the course and distance at Christmas.
    Anibale Fly has been raised 11lbs by the handicapper for that success and Berry said: “He’s in with the big boys now and has to take his chance. He’s had a few hiccups in his career and was in no-man’s land there for a while. But he bounced back at Leopardstown, put up a good performance. We hope he can build on that.
    “We had to be pleased with Minella Rocco’s last run [fourth in the Leopardstown Chase]. He jumped and stayed on well. You can’t get too excited about it. But it was his best run of the year.”
    Minella Rocco made the frame in last year’s Cheltenham Gold Cup but it is the relatively unexposed Coney Island who is as low as 8-1 in some lists for ‘Blue Riband’ glory this time. The horse is also prominent in ante-post lists for the Ryanair Chase at Cheltenham.
    “All options are open to him if he does well at Ascot,” Berry declared. “He is playing catch-up a little bit so we have to play it by ear and see how he performs at Ascot.”
    Last edited by granger; 23rd January 2018 at 9:42 AM.
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  19. #677
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    I've just watched the 2017 Gold Cup all the way through again.

    As someone who backed Wayward Lad every time he ran in the race I can feel the pain of Djakadam's fans. He's maybe the Wayward Lad of his generation.

    I still don't think it was a great Gold Cup. I remember going low with Best Mate because he was dominant in a substandard era and I think it might not have been a strong race in depth. Matt Chapman pointed out during the build-up that the first five in the betting on November 1 of the season weren't there. Factor in Tea For Two's defeat of Cue Card subsequently at Aintree with the likes of Aso (good third to Un De Sceaux) and Smad Place well beaten and you have to wonder really what the winner achieved.

    Then you have to ask, "Is this year's race any better?"

    I have 'an empty' on Saturday and plan to watch the race again, once for every runner in the race imagining I'd backed it and looking for an excuse for its run, to see what I find.
    Last edited by Desert Orchid; 26th January 2018 at 12:23 AM.
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  20. #678
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    I think that's spot on Maurice. I'd be pretty confident that this years winner didn't run last year.

  21. #679
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Think there is (and always has been) a tendency to automatically assume that the Gold Cup must be the highest-rated chase of the year, when it isn’t necessarily always the case. It’s safe to assume it’s always high-class, but not necessarily top-class.

    I watched it back just a few days ago, and the thing that struck me most, was how ‘early’ Sizing John was off the bridle. In my minds-eye, he’d travelled best of them all, but both Djakadam and (pains me to say it) BDM were going better coming down the hill.

    For me, the finish conclusively proved that Djak simply doesn’t get home over the trip - which is hardly a newsflash - and that BDM is just a one-paced stayer. The proximity of Minella Rocco almost certainly holds the form down, and of the principals, I’d only be inclined to give Native River the benefit of the doubt in this year’s renewal; him having hard-enough races on the run-up to the 2017 Gold Cup.

    Unless something puts up a seriously impressive performance in the IGC next weekend, it’s hard to see The Biter beaten. I have absolutely no concerns on the stamina front, and find it bizarre that this would be questioned as a potential weak-link in some quarters of the media, given he stopped to a walk in the furlong-shorter RSA, but still managed to pick-up and chin a fully-extended, serious stayer, in Whisper, inside the last half-furlong.

    i’d go so far as to say that the only horse who can beat The Biter is himself. Hopefully, with the New Course being on the inside, and fully-railed up the run-in, there won’t be a repeat of last year’s coronary-inducing antics.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 26th January 2018 at 10:37 AM.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

  22. #680
    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    Doesn't leave many, Maruco, but does leave Might Bite.

    I've taken another ante-post dabble, hopefully to no risk, with the NRNB/BOG concessions: Edwulf ew 66/1 to coffee money.

    The four-miler is becoming one of the top form races and I think Edwulf's jockey was pretty confident he had Tiger Roll covered when making his move last year only for the poor beast to go wrong.

    I was surprised they opted for the Lexus for his reappearance and that was clearly an easy race to have him inconspicuously run badly when very weak in the betting. His trainer had said that was just a case of getting him back to the track and that they would think about "major plans ...after Christmas".

    I don't really expect him to run in the Gold Cup but if he did I wouldn't be surprised if he outran those odds and he'd be unlikely to start at more than 25/1 given his connections.

    Edit - I should add that I don't think last year's four-miler was as good as the previous couple of years but it might end up working out well.
    Last edited by Desert Orchid; 26th January 2018 at 10:33 AM.
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