View Poll Results: Who will win the 2018 CH

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  • Buveur D'Air

    17 54.84%
  • Faugheen

    10 32.26%
  • Other

    4 12.90%
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Thread: The Road To The 2018 Champion Hurdle

  1. #201
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euronymous View Post
    Best I've ever seen.
    his nickname is apt.

    its best word I can think to associate with him. Loved his bumper wins and look at what he has become now.

    Special Attraction. Lap it up folks
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  2. #202
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Euro!!! U need to get out more


    Horse Born Rating
    Night Nurse 1971 182
    Monksfield 1972 180
    Istabraq 1992 180
    Persian War 1963 179
    Comedy of Errors 1967 178
    Le Sauvignon 1994 178
    Lanzarote 1968 177
    Limestone Lad 1992 177
    Bula 1965 176
    Sir Ken 1948 176 *
    Birds Nest 1970 176
    Golden Cygnet 1972 176
    Big Buck's 2003 176
    Faugheen 2008 176
    Salmon Spray 1958 175
    Sea Pigeon 1970 175
    Gaye Brief 1977 175
    Baracouda 1995 175


    We've had some great hurdlers over the years. Night Nurse may be at the top of Timeform but Istabraq for me was the greatest of all time.......he had it all just didn't have the same opposition as Night Nurse did but would have beaten them all IMO
    Last edited by Tanlic; 19th November 2017 at 4:53 PM.
    Formely Fist of Fury

  3. #203
    Senior Member TheBear's Avatar
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    You post the list up to disagree with Euro but then disagree with it yourself!

    On what planet is Big Bucks the same quality of animal as The Machine? Not the one I live on.


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  4. #204
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    I think someone pointed this out with regards to chasers(Arkle period), but now looking at the hurdling list of Timeforms, you're telling me that in a period of 5 years(1967-72) there were 7 hurdlers of similar ability to Faugheen? Seems inflated. Lets not forget in the race when he was rated 176, Ruby stopped ridding in the last 100 yards.

    Tanlic, thats how the best horse in training looks like

  5. #205
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    That post is so off it doesn't deserve an answer
    Formely Fist of Fury

  6. #206
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBear View Post
    You post the list up to disagree with Euro but then disagree with it yourself!

    On what planet is Big Bucks the same quality of animal as The Machine? Not the one I live on.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I posted the list to let him know racing has been going on for quite some time......If Faugheen is the best he has seen then blow me he hasn't seen much. He won his champion Hurdle ok but let's not forget he was disappointing to those who thought he'd **** up.

    Augie is right he was eased when he got his 176...no bloody wonder Arctic Fire was injured and never raced for 13 months..giving a horse a rating for beating an invalid should have people disputing it not boasting about it.

    Euro is entitled to his opinion but you know whats wrong with this form people say things like...............Altior is the greatest horse of all time and back it up with nothing..........wtf has faugheen beat to say he's the greatest of all time......Arctic Fire? The New One...FFS look at the horses form and his opponents...........No where near the best and he may well be overrated at 176...def debateable.
    Last edited by Tanlic; 19th November 2017 at 6:51 PM.
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  7. #207
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    At your age you're losing couple neurons per hour, your form analysis has gotten even worse, if thats possible..

  8. #208
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    I've got to say, that's the best performance Faugheen had put in on his seasonal debut. He also looked fit first time which he's never done before. It was great to see.

    I love him but I'm not getting carried away by him stuffing Jezki. I reckon if Jezki had run in last seasons Champion Hurdle he'd have been out with the washing. I'll have look at the time tomorrow but for now all I'd say is he's over his injury, he's fit and well, and maybe he could put up a performance close to those he's achieved in the past.

    Fingers crossed he can repeat it, but Buveur D'Air is the younger horse and entitled to improve and right now I know which way I'd be leaning.

  9. #209
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    We had a fishwife clear out on here a few years back. Any remaining non believers won't survive this time around.

    Devours Ground, Devours Opposition
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by granger View Post
    We had a fishwife clear out on here a few years back. Any remaining non believers won't survive this time around.

    Devours Ground, Devours Opposition

  11. #211
    Senior Member Kauto Abu's Avatar
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    The Road To The 2018 Champion Hurdle

    This is going to be so much fun & it’s only November.

    Shades of build up to The Fly’s ‘14 Champion Hurdle or Vautour in that KG all over again!!

    The only downside of todays win was that BD was only nudged out in the book a mere fraction in most places.


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    Last edited by Kauto Abu; 19th November 2017 at 11:25 PM.

  12. #212
    Senior Member Euronymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanlic View Post
    Euro!!! U need to get out more


    Horse Born Rating
    Night Nurse 1971 182
    Monksfield 1972 180
    Istabraq 1992 180
    Persian War 1963 179
    Comedy of Errors 1967 178
    Le Sauvignon 1994 178
    Lanzarote 1968 177
    Limestone Lad 1992 177
    Bula 1965 176
    Sir Ken 1948 176 *
    Birds Nest 1970 176
    Golden Cygnet 1972 176
    Big Buck's 2003 176
    Faugheen 2008 176
    Salmon Spray 1958 175
    Sea Pigeon 1970 175
    Gaye Brief 1977 175
    Baracouda 1995 175


    We've had some great hurdlers over the years. Night Nurse may be at the top of Timeform but Istabraq for me was the greatest of all time.......he had it all just didn't have the same opposition as Night Nurse did but would have beaten them all IMO


    Not counting the likes of Night Nurse and Sea Pigeon who were at it a decade before I got into racing. I accept that Istabraq was a better jumper of a hurdle, much better, but it doesn't matter. Faugheen would just have powered past him after the last. The Big Buck's inclusion I'm assuming is a joke.

  13. #213
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    I don't go back as far as some but I'm in the camp that your only as good as what you've won and I think in NH racing longevity counts for a lot. Istabraq and the Fly to me are the best that i can remember. It might be unfair on Faugheen as he's had such a long time out and thats no fault of his own but as such for me he will never rate as highly as the other 2 mentioned. It was great to see him back today and it would great to see him come back to win another champion hurdle but he has to get there in one piece first.

    Those ratings above i find a joke really to try and compare horses like Limestone Lad ( one of my all time favourites ) with the cream of Champion Hurdlers is just not realistic same goes for Big Bucks and any other staying hurdler.
    Last edited by Danny; 19th November 2017 at 11:59 PM.
    Man who catch fly with chopstick .... accomplish anything.

  14. #214
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aughex View Post
    At your age you're losing couple neurons per hour, your form analysis has gotten even worse, if thats possible..
    You're waffling as usual..............just total shyte with nothing to back it up.

    I stated Arctic Fire was out of sorts when Faugheen beat him 15 lengths and because he was out of sorts questioned whether handicapper rating him 176 was justidied or not.

    You in turn reply with an insult............So here my take on that. If you can't have an adult conversation and add something constructive to a debate best you shut the **** up...Savvy?
    Formely Fist of Fury

  15. #215
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Faugheen looked great and it was an excellent performance but we have to face facts Jezki ain't no chicken and gets some real doings these days.

    The withdrawal of Vroum Vroum IMO was to make sure Faugheen was unlikely to be put to the sword and was only in there as a sub in the first place hence the long odds on offer.

    Faugheen has always had a pretty easy time of it beating up the non combatants of the Champion Hurdle army.

    They included the professional Champion Hurdle loser the New One who fished only 3/4 length in front of Hargam that day granted because he was out on his feet trying to catch Faugheen

    Others he was asked to beat I doubt if many could remember their names without looking back........The Neptune boasted just about nothing bar Cole Harden but he was beaten miles that day.

    However he got to the Champion Hurdle in one piece but the expected fireworks just bever happened..He won ok but another 100 yds and many think Arctic Fire would have beat him.


    IMO it was a very poor time for CH contenders the 3rd that year was Hurricane Fly in his very last race going off at 8/1 tells all. He still has it but he's just beat another oap and that is the fact of the matter

    These younger horses like Defi and Bouveur are different class to Arctic Fire and will have no problem picking up Faugheen..............9/4 about him for the Champion........mugs bet if ever there was one
    Formely Fist of Fury

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanlic View Post
    You're waffling as usual..............just total shyte with nothing to back it up.

    I stated Arctic Fire was out of sorts when Faugheen beat him 15 lengths and because he was out of sorts questioned whether handicapper rating him 176 was justidied or not.

    You in turn reply with an insult............So here my take on that. If you can't have an adult conversation and add something constructive to a debate best you shut the **** up...Savvy?
    I never insult people on internet forums. If you perceived it as such I apologize, I didn't mean it as an affront to your age but rather made a comment on your lack of skills when it comes to judging horses form. For instance you claim that Arctic Fire was out for 13 months so we shouldn't take his run seriously, however Faugheen was out 22 months so that means he was missing a leg in that race? How can you downgrade a race based on the injuries they picked 3-4 weeks after an event? Faugheen picked an injury 3 weeks after the race when returning to normal training, while AF was injured a week later also in training.

    Secondly, NC 30 lengths back in 3rd that day was not coincidental, his jockey pushed him to stay along Faugheen and could only do that until 2 out. His next outing came 3rd in the Champion only 4 lengths behind a mare to which he was giving 7 pounds. Without the mistake at the last he would've been 2nd. No handicapper claims NC run to his best in the Irish Champion, otherwise Faugheen would've been rated 200, instead they rated NC 2 stones below his best. They rated Arctic Fire 1 stone below his best. Faugheen rating was a very very safe view, and you can see that because all 3 major rating organizations rated him 176 when most of the times there's a difference in performance ratings, usually RP goes 4-5 lb higher than TF but could go the other way but they rarely match, especially with the official handicapper who is always on the safe side.

    An objective person would see things as they are but I guess you'll never see the light.
    Last edited by Aughex; 20th November 2017 at 7:56 AM.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny View Post
    I don't go back as far as some but I'm in the camp that your only as good as what you've won and I think in NH racing longevity counts for a lot
    In case you don't know Faugheen's been around since 2013, almost 5 years, he just returned with a sensational performance. Rather than dismissing him because he was injured for 2 years, you could appreciate the best performance in that race's history, beating a former Champion hurdler(his jockey Mark Walsh claimed after the race Jezki was back to his old self) by 16 lengths is unheard of. The uniqueness and circumstances of yesterday's performance makes him the best I've seen.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maruco View Post
    I've got to say, that's the best performance Faugheen had put in on his seasonal debut. He also looked fit first time which he's never done before. It was great to see.

    I love him but I'm not getting carried away by him stuffing Jezki. I reckon if Jezki had run in last seasons Champion Hurdle he'd have been out with the washing. I'll have look at the time tomorrow but for now all I'd say is he's over his injury, he's fit and well, and maybe he could put up a performance close to those he's achieved in the past.

    Fingers crossed he can repeat it, but Buveur D'Air is the younger horse and entitled to improve and right now I know which way I'd be leaning.
    Paul, the time was 4min dead , for the ground exceptionally quick . The race was run 9 seconds quicker than the 2mile handicap and 14 sec quicker than a decent bumper. It was quite a performance first time out against race fit horses. I have it up there with his best runs. If he keeps this form or improves nothing will touch him in March

  19. #219
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanlic View Post
    Euro!!! U need to get out more


    Horse Born Rating
    Night Nurse 1971 182
    Monksfield 1972 180
    Istabraq 1992 180
    Persian War 1963 179
    Comedy of Errors 1967 178
    Le Sauvignon 1994 178
    Lanzarote 1968 177
    Limestone Lad 1992 177
    Bula 1965 176
    Sir Ken 1948 176 *
    Birds Nest 1970 176
    Golden Cygnet 1972 176
    Big Buck's 2003 176
    Faugheen 2008 176
    Salmon Spray 1958 175
    Sea Pigeon 1970 175
    Gaye Brief 1977 175
    Baracouda 1995 175


    We've had some great hurdlers over the years. Night Nurse may be at the top of Timeform but Istabraq for me was the greatest of all time.......he had it all just didn't have the same opposition as Night Nurse did but would have beaten them all IMO
    19 hurdlers there and no hurricane Fly?

    Seriously
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  20. #220
    Senior Member swedish chef's Avatar
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    I thought Faugheens performance was exceptional - the nagging doubt in my mind is how he will handle the bounce effect on his next run after so long off. Really good to see him back.
    Pluralism of Ideas and the prosperity of any land are intertwined. Freedom of minds and skill of intellect to 'think the unthinkable' is how humanity has progressed; when minds are incarcerated nothing endures.

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