Manchester Bombing

[Grasshopper]

I think immigration has very-little to do with terrorism in real-terms, and correlating the two is an error.

A philosophy which suggests terrorism will stop - if we could only "close the gates" - is misplaced for two reasons, imo.

Firstly, it would not be surprising if the perpetrator is eventually found to be a UK citizen. It's certainly been the case with many other Islamic terrorists who have committed atrocities on UK soil, and it's hard to see how a tighter immigration policy would help, when it comes to these types of individuals.

Secondly, pursuing tighter immigration as a means to control terrorism, simply means wasting money/resources in an area that will provide limited material benefit. Such money and resources as are available to fight terrorism, would be better committed in other areas, such as additional surveillance of suspects, intelligence-gathering, de-radicalisation programmes etc. IMO.

[Marb]

I'm referring to being harder on immigration rather then policing etc.

We've had a Centre Right (led) government in the U.K for 7 years now Slim, if anything...you could argue this has happened on their watch.

They (and the security services) might have to actually provide some answers after this, its silly to view the left as part of the causal factor here, then use this as an example of why we need to vote for Conservative or U.K.I.P.

The Islamic threat is so diverse, so much more random, than say the I.R.A.

Whether its a lone wolf, a copy cat merchant, or someone related to Osama Bin Laden himself, you never know with these lot.

[SlimChance]

I think immigration has very-little to do with terrorism in real-terms, and correlating the two is an error.

A philosophy which suggests terrorism will stop - if we could only "close the gates" - is misplaced for two reasons, imo.

Firstly, it would not be surprising if the perpetrator is eventually found to be a UK citizen. It's certainly been the case with many other Islamic terrorists who have committed atrocities on UK soil, and it's hard to see how a tighter immigration policy would help, when it comes to these types of individuals.

Secondly, pursuing tighter immigration as a means to control terrorism, simply means wasting money/resources in an area that will provide limited material benefit. Such money and resources as are available to fight terrorism, would be better committed in other areas, such as additional surveillance of suspects, intelligence-gathering, de-radicalisation programmes etc. IMO.

Is terrorism not correlated with the borders opening in Europe?

[SlimChance]

We've had a Centre Right (led) government in the U.K for 7 years now Slim, if anything...you could argue this has happened on their watch.

They (and the security services) might have to actually provide some answers after this, its silly to view the left as part of the causal factor here, then use this as an example of why we need to vote for Conservative or U.K.I.P.

The Islamic threat is so diverse, so much more random, than say the I.R.A.

Whether its a lone wolf, a copy cat merchant, or someone related to Osama Bin Laden himself, you just never know with this lot.

It almost makes the IRA look legit, at least they were fighting for a known cause. Not that I condone the IRA.

[SlimChance]

In terms of voting to the right, I'm not suggesting it's the soloution but rather it's likely the party's with more extreme right views are likely to prosper the more incidents like last night. Is that a fair assumption?

[Grasshopper]

Yes, that is a fair assumption - these things always play into the hands of the right-wing. The problem is that the right-wing are generally useless when it comes to effective policy-making, what with them being a shower of chinless cu*nts, n'that.

Containment (as far as it can be reasonably contained) of the terrorism problem, is entirely down to the professionalism and diligence of the intelligence services and Dibble; both of whom have a welcome degree of operational independence, from the eejits in Government. I'm not convinced that there is, or has ever been, a policy in the right-wing toolkit, that has been demonstratively-proven to have helped tackle terrorism.

[2017diary]

Not a comment on the thread but such a soft target last night, my heart goes out to their families.

[Marb]

It could skew or change voting patterns Slim, yes. Because the constant Conservative campaign message, that Jeremy Corbyn sympathises with terrorists will hit home for a few disenchanted people, that are easily led into believing slander.

[SlimChance]

Not a comment on the thread but such a soft target last night, my heart goes out to their families.

It's pretty despicable. So random.

[Flagship uberalles]

Is terrorism not correlated with the borders opening in Europe?

How? The majority of attacks carried out across the EU are from people who have lived in the country for a long time (if not born there).

It's probably more related to the growth of internet technologies.

[Grasshopper]

Spot on, Flagship....hence a stronger-line on immigration will be ineffective. The Internet doesn't recognise borders.

[Part time punter]

I can't agree Luke, Corbyn attended the funeral of IRA paramilitary that were shot dead when attempting to attack a police station. The comments made by the newspaper he was part of after the Brighton bombing were frankly outrageous no matter your political belief.

I have absolutely no doubt the media have an agenda with pushing his IRA sympathies but as a child of a soldier I was brought up taught how to check under a car for a bomb and what to look for. Nobody who ever had sympathies with the murderers who still refuse to come to Westminster (despite them now being legitimately elected and given the opportunities to influence the Northern Ireland agenda directly in Westminster) will get my vote. And I won't be voting Tory or UKIP either as immigration is the biggest red herring as to the cause of our country's issues.

[Part time punter]

THis will only end when the royal families in the middle east stop funding these people. In the same way the IRA were brought to the table when America stopped funding them.

[Warbler]

Ha, I was agreeing with you. He's slightly to the left of Trotsky, and standing up to terrorists isn't exactly his strong point.

You obviously don't much (if anything) about Trotsky then. You might like to acquaint yourself with the Russian civil war and the Kronstadt rebellion before making such low investment comments. If standing up to terror is what you want, then Trotsky would have been a sight more severe on them then Theresa May, who so far only seems to be bothered about introducing a snoopers charter and her own approved firewall to determine what we're allowed to look at on-line (all in the name of security of course and nothing to do with being a controlling nanny state)

[Flagship uberalles]

You obviously don't much (if anything) about Trotsky then. You might like to acquaint yourself with the Russian civil war and the Kronstad rebellion before making such low investment comments. If standing up to terror is what you want, then Trotsky would have been a sight more severe on them then Theresa May, who so far only seems to be bothered about introducing a snoopers charter and her own approved firewall to determine what we're allowed to look at on-line (all in the name of security of course and nothing to do with being a controlling nanny state)

You may expect more calls for it then as no doubt this dude will have been radicalised via the internet.

[Warbler]

You may expect more calls for it then as no doubt this dude will have been radicalised via the internet.

Undoubtedly, but then I do wonder what the true value of these enhanced powers has been? For a couple of years David Cameron used to hide behind the seven plots that had been foiled as his justification. Gradually however these cases started to come to court and the level of amateursim behind them was staggering. One guy used the Twitter handle "mystery bomber", had 'Jihadi John' as his avatar, posted videos on youtube of experiments with explosives in his back garden, and finally conducted an on-lie poll regarding his target. Honestly, we're entitled to expect our security services to pick this kind of stuff up with or without the right to turn our televisions into listening devices, access all our phones, and lurk on our hard dirves monitoring everything we write.

When however the UK's snoopers charter and intrusive state fails to protect us, do we think for one second that Theresa May is going to say have your liberties back? Or do we think that oncce we've let her in she'll just consolidate and then go for more

[LUKE]

THis will only end when the royal families in the middle east stop funding these people. In the same way the IRA were brought to the table when America stopped funding them.

Do you really believe the IRA were brought to the table.

[BennyB]

You obviously don't much (if anything) about Trotsky then. You might like to acquaint yourself with the Russian civil war and the Kronstadt rebellion before making such low investment comments. If standing up to terror is what you want, then Trotsky would have been a sight more severe on them then Theresa May, who so far only seems to be bothered about introducing a snoopers charter and her own approved firewall to determine what we're allowed to look at on-line (all in the name of security of course and nothing to do with being a controlling nanny state)

It was a throwaway comment rather than one to be taken literally.

I studied Russian Economic History (and got a first) as part of my first class honours degree in Economics. So you can stick that up your hole frankly.

Back on topic this is a sickening attack - sadly the real surprise is that there aren't more of them. The security services do a great job.

[frontrunner]

I can't agree Luke, Corbyn attended the funeral of IRA paramilitary that were shot dead when attempting to attack a police station. The comments made by the newspaper he was part of after the Brighton bombing were frankly outrageous no matter your political belief.

I have absolutely no doubt the media have an agenda with pushing his IRA sympathies but as a child of a soldier I was brought up taught how to check under a car for a bomb and what to look for. Nobody who ever had sympathies with the murderers who still refuse to come to Westminster (despite them now being legitimately elected and given the opportunities to influence the Northern Ireland agenda directly in Westminster) will get my vote. And I won't be voting Tory or UKIP either as immigration is the biggest red herring as to the cause of our country's issues.

This account from Ann Travers sheds a lot of light on Corburn in my opinion


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...ed-sister.html

[SlimChance]

Quite like Donald Trump's stance here. Call them what they are.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/23/po...ester-remarks/